10 year old Black Belts!

[IcemanSK]

In Kukki-Taekwondo (Kukkiwon Taekwondo), one is given a "Poom" rank (rather than a "Dan" rank) until the age of 15. At 15, that student can turn that Poom rank into a Dan rank with no additional test. One can keep 4th Poom rank until age 18, when it will become 4th Dan. That person is eligible for 5th Dan at age 22. Here's a chart that explains it.

Poom/Dan

Minimum Time

Required for Promotion

Age Limits for Promotion

Start from Dan

Start from Poom

1st Poom NA NA Less than 15 Years of age!

1st to 2nd Poom 1 year NA 15 Years of age!

2nd to 3rd Poom 2 years NA 15 Years of age!

3rd to 4th Poom 3 years NA 18 years of age

1st Dan N A 15 years and above

N A

1st to 2nd Dan 1 year 16 years and above 16 years and above

2nd to 3rd Dan 2 years 18 years and above 18 years and above

3rd to 4th Dan 3 years 18 years and above 18 years and above

[Rateh]

We follow the Poom system for students under 15 years old. We also follow the Poom BELT which is half black / half red. The highest colored belt is red, so the Poom belt color is half way between the highest colored belt, and a full black belt.

[bushido_man96]

Here's a post I saw on Facebook via Totally Taekwondo Magazine: http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/403303/Ninja-Alec-Cross-Britain-s-young-black-belt-fighter

He's 6 years old, and he started at 4 and a half, the article notes. I'm not sure if he should be labeled as a "fighter," but maybe he competes. I am curious if any of our UK members are familiar with the school or the instructor or not.

I noticed the belt system that they used, and the colored belt curriculum matches ours. The black belt curriculum is different, though. In our school, we have different program we run for kids aged 5-7. Once they hit 7 or 8, we discuss moving them into the regular classes, so their journey towards black belt wouldn't start until then.

The other thing that concerns me is the 8 weeks between each belt rank, which I admit is a concern I've had about our TKD school, as well. We usually test about every two months, but our instructor has called off our latest testing to give the students more time to prepare.

If it was something I could change personally, I'd move to a three-month testing cycle at the least. I feel like that would free up more time in class to hit other subject matters, as well.

At any rate, I thought this article was pertinent to this discussion, and thought I would drop it in here for some more discussion.

[Lupin1]

I feel really bad for the kids in those articles. They don't know any better-- they're kids. They're proud of their accomplishment as they should be. Their parents usually don't know any better either, and are also proud of their kids' accomplishment, so they put them in the paper. Then this poor kid gets attacked by strangers on the internet and people argue over him and he becomes debate fodder.

I agree that a six-year-old training twice a week for two years most likely doesn't have the basics mastery necessary for black belt, but I feel bad for the poor kid more than anything else.

[bushido_man96]

I feel really bad for the kids in those articles. They don't know any better-- they're kids. They're proud of their accomplishment as they should be. Their parents usually don't know any better either, and are also proud of their kids' accomplishment, so they put them in the paper. Then this poor kid gets attacked by strangers on the internet and people argue over him and he becomes debate fodder.

I agree that a six-year-old training twice a week for two years most likely doesn't have the basics mastery necessary for black belt, but I feel bad for the poor kid more than anything else.

You make good points in regards to the kid here. I stay away from the bickering that happens online in stories like that.

But, the instructor is also responsible to a degree of the child being in this position. I'd like to see clips of the kid, just to see how he looks doing technique and forms. I would also be curious to know how many kids this age this instructor has promoted to black belt rank.

[The Pred]

As it pertains to kids getting their black belts. Some may disagree in terms mental and physical maturity. However, what about the physical size and strength difference between a 16 year old male and female?

[sensei8]

As it pertains to kids getting their black belts. Some may disagree in terms mental and physical maturity. However, what about the physical size and strength difference between a 16 year old male and female?

The MA isn't concerned with physical size and strength, imho, it shouldn't be. It's not what you got, it's how you use it!!

[The Pred]

As it pertains to kids getting their black belts. Some may disagree in terms mental and physical maturity. However, what about the physical size and strength difference between a 16 year old male and female?

The MA isn't concerned with physical size and strength, imho, it shouldn't be. It's not what you got, it's how you use it!!

Good point

[bushido_man96]

As it pertains to kids getting their black belts. Some may disagree in terms mental and physical maturity. However, what about the physical size and strength difference between a 16 year old male and female?

The MA isn't concerned with physical size and strength, imho, it shouldn't be. It's not what you got, it's how you use it!!

How about the mental maturity of some teenagers?

[chiliphil1]

I want to add another point here..

I think in some cases someone under 16 (or 18 ) could be considered a full dan without having to think twice about it.

I am trying not to sound condescending on this but when I refer to myself I think I fit into that class, I have always been different than my peers.

I started martial arts at 6, I attended class 4 days a week minimum from 92 to 94 I was injured and missed about a year of classes and I went back in mid 95. I was homeschooled by my instructors wife, after school classes we would go to the dojo where I would train for about 2 hours DAILY with the head instructor, then teach or help teach the junior class, then take the adult class. I did all of this 5 days a week then took the Saturday class as well, so 6 days a week every week.

I was given asst instructor honors at 8 years old with a brown belt (our system has 2 brown, 2 red, then black) So I was 4 ranks away from dan at this point. I started taking the adult class at 8. I was always more advanced than anyone else in my junior classes, not just by rank but because I had the huge advantage of training directly with the instructor when no one else got to do that. When I say train with the instructor I don't mean going through kata, I mean full fledged grappling, throws, etc without much holding back, I used to complain about it but then realized the privilege I was being awarded.

I want to stress again that I am not trying to brag or toot my own horn but I feel that I was a "special" case. My knowledge of the arts far exceeded most of the other students of any age, my maturity was far beyond even the adults. I was able to mentally handle the fact that what I knew could seriously injure someone so they allowed me to learn things that maybe some of the other students did not get to know. I was one of 2 "kids" that made it to black belt, NONE of the other kids in the school made it, they may have gotten to red belt but they did not go farther. I am not sure if this was because they quit or just because they weren't allowed to test for it either way they slowly started to disappear with red belts on..

I say all that to say this, I do believe that in some cases a black belt for a person under a certain age is ok, but in some cases it is not. In the case of some 6 year old it's probably not the best idea but with respect to some others it may be appropriate. I think someone who has trained with adults and proven that they are well within their league with them should be promoted without reservation.

I could also bring the point that many adult black belts I have seen should not have been promoted to the rank they either don't have the mental capacity to wear the belt or their skills are useless in the real world.. I may upset some people here, but someone who has a black belt with 5 stripes on it but is only capable of a flashy gymnastics routine with some half hearted kicks tossed in is just as bad as a child black belt who has the skill but is too weak to use them.

Just my .02