Skipping Belts

[bushido_man96]

I guess we should decide what "rank" means here. If rank is a correlation to ability within the style, then I think that would mean that time in grade is only part of what you would take into consideration when considering what rank someone is. Normally, I don't think there is anything wrong with the amount of time set between ranks. But, when you decide to force someone to work through the required time in rank for each rank, and you don't evaluate their skill level in comparison with your other students, then you really aren't doing anyone any justice, and you take away the main point of the rank system.

In my opinion.

[DoctorQui]

I guess we should decide what "rank" means here. If rank is a correlation to ability within the style, then I think that would mean that time in grade is only part of what you would take into consideration when considering what rank someone is. Normally, I don't think there is anything wrong with the amount of time set between ranks. But, when you decide to force someone to work through the required time in rank for each rank, and you don't evaluate their skill level in comparison with your other students, then you really aren't doing anyone any justice, and you take away the main point of the rank system.

In my opinion.

Concisely put and I agree!

[sensei8]

I've never skipped a rank, however, I went from Nidan to Sandan in one year. Reason, I'd been a JBB for just over 5 years, and during that time, my Dai-Soke trained me to Sandan level.

So, when I turned 18, I tested for my Shodan, then a year later I tested for my Nidan and because I was more than ready my Sandan, per my Dai-Soke, I tested for my Sandan one year after my Nidan instead of waiting the tenure of 2 years minimum.

After that, tenure had to be achieved per our Soke.

[madtanker]

I am not sure if this has been said; however, not every system has the same color belts. In Tang Soo Do (with my instructor) as well as the system of Hapkido I am enrolled in, we go white (to 2 stripes), orange (to one stripe), green (to two stripes), red (to two stripes) then black.I have also heard that 'traditional' TSD uses a dark blue belt as opposed to black, and it is a nice story... it has to do with black being a terminal color, while blue (as in the sky) offers infinite opportunities, the point being, as long as one is breathing, they are learning...

In another form in his school, we go from red to black with a stripe (black candidate) to black.

I have heard of systems that only go white, to brown, to black... and some that use white, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple, brown, and black, all with, and without stripes. It is down to the teacher/master, and their system...

The quality of knowledge is not around the persons waist; however, it resides in their head. Now, like I know has been said, if a person skips styles, they can sometimes skip belts (as in one form of karate to another in a different school)... This is all in the teacher as well...

[shinka]

in hoshinkido...

if you're an active black belt in another discipline...you even jump to green belt (but....it's as a respect title) you have to climb the ladder too but won't pay for the belts etc.... so yes they jump but they still need to learn everything oviously

[Ascalon]

Massive hypocrisy in this thread. People complain about McDojos where ranks are given out on time served, rather than being earned. Yet that is essentially what is being argued here.

Students should not be advanced grades when they are not ready, but the flip side of this is that they should not be held back when they are. Both devalue the grading system.

I am not saying that a black belt in one discipline should automatically equate to an X belt in another discipline. But if somebody demonstrates their competency to a certain level then it is absolutely within the discretion of the head instructor to recognise that. That is, after all, what grading is about.

[DoctorQui]

Massive hypocrisy in this thread. People complain about McDojos where ranks are given out on time served, rather than being earned. Yet that is essentially what is being argued here.

Students should not be advanced grades when they are not ready, but the flip side of this is that they should not be held back when they are. Both devalue the grading system.

I am not saying that a black belt in one discipline should automatically equate to an X belt in another discipline. But if somebody demonstrates their competency to a certain level then it is absolutely within the discretion of the head instructor to recognise that. That is, after all, what grading is about.

I'm not sure I completely understand what you are saying here.

I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested that someone given a rank simply on time served. Also, I think there is a chasm of a difference between skipping belts due to competence and activities practised by McDojos.

I understand from all the posts advocating belt skipping, is that it is done only where someone is competent. If a black belt in one style switches to another, it is reasonable that their experience is going to be a massive advantage over someone who is a beginner in terms of the understanding of MA and its philosophy, being able assimilate information much more quickly and generally being much faster than the average person.

I don't think progressing someone when they have the competence devalues the grading system at all. On the contrary, imo making an experienced karateka go through basic kihon (where subtle differences can be picked up in just a few lessons, and I speak from experience here) is benefitting neither the club nor the intructor/s and suggests revenue or bureaucracy is more important than the Art which in turn devalues not only the grading system but the Art as well!

I think there is, by oh so many, a misunderstanding of the purpose of the coloured belt being that it is simply there so the instructor knows what competence level you are at and so you are trained appropriately. Its not a social status! Skipping belts is not a case of skipping levels that other people have worked for, its indicating that the student is at a specific level in their training.

I don't see any hypocracy!

OSU

[evergrey]

OSU, solid post, DoctorQui!

[Ascalon]

You are misunderstanding my point.

I believe in belt skipping, because I believe that your grade should be a true reflection of your ability.

Just as people should not be advanced merely because of time that they have served at a grade, they should not be held back merely because they have not served time at a grade.

It makes no sense to hold back someone who is competent to a particular level merely for the sake of formality. If a person is competent to a given level, it is appropriate for the head instructor to recognise that.

Just as it devalues a grading system to have incompetent holders of particular belts, it also devalues a grading system to have overqualified holders of particular belts.

The whole point of the belt system is to recognise tiered levels of competency.

[jaypo]

I think the answers on this forum would reflect the legitimancy of the instructor that is grading. For example, if he's allowing someone to skip a rank, he better be confident that the student is qualified. Especially if he jumps somoene else's rank that is more deserving.

Personally, I feel that I have the same or higher skill level as a couple of people that have higher ranks than I do in the system I train in. However, I don't feel like I've earned a higher rank as of yet, because I think I need to perfect certain techniques whereas some of the other students know more of the techniques, but have lesser form on their techniques. They have the knowledge and skill to put them at a higher rank than I am currently at. But for me to feel like I truly earned a higher rank, I want to feel like I've learned more and perfected what I've learned before I advance. My next test, if I pass, will put me at brown belt. I feel that brown belts should have near perfect form on their basic strikes, blocks, and kicks. I feel that I should know all required katas and sequences with near perfect form before I should be awarded my brown belt.

That's just my .02.