Hierarchy

[ps1]

Spend enough time training martial arts and you'll eventually hear someone ask this question:

"Sensei (Sir, ma'am, ect...), when will I earn my next rank?"

You hear that or some variation of it. The typical response is usually a whitty retort followed by some sort of punishment (be it physical or mental) for having the nerve of asking such a question.

I used to be the same way, until recently. One of my student's, a transplant from another school, sat down next to me during a break and said, "Where do you see me as far as skill?"

You may argue, this is a very respectful way to ask a question. And I agree. However, answering is not as simple. He was, in essence, asking what is required to advance.

I found myself having to answer by referring to rank. He was skilled, missing a few details here and there, and was a high level white belt teetering on the edge of blue belt. After all, like school, like the military, like almost everything else that requires learning we have a hierarchy. For us, the hierarchy is based on belt rank.

Let me put it in another context. If I am a "team leader" in a job, I might have the goal of reaching "manager." Why would it be disrespectful for me to ask my boss what he expects of me to reach that goal? Essentially, I'm asking, "When will I earn my promotion?" The boss would tell me what I need to do in order to receive said promotion.

I guess my point is, as long as we place belt ranks as the goals for our students, they will use that as their guideline to judge progress. So, by telling the students they shouldn't ask about ranks, we essentially stunt their growth.

I again return to the "manager" example. If I never ask my boss how I can become a manager, he or she may simply think I have no interest and, ultimately, pass me up on the opportunity. I've seen this happen. I've witnessed people come in, work hard, sacrifice, learn and get passed up because the boss never realized they were interested in the promotion.

So what's your take? Should a student ask about rank? Let's assume a respectful question. Not the whole, "I should be rank x" stuff.

[MasterPain]

"Where do you see me as far as skill?"

Haha, I've asked that before. Not out of any interest in being ranked, but a simple curiosity. We have no BJJ schools in the area, and I don't travel much. It would be nice, if I ever crawl out of my bubble, to be able to see a belt and have an idea what percentage of my butt is about to be handed to me.

The same question from someone with just a little experience, is looking for perspective. Someone who has been grappling for a couple months can feel like they're wrestling a demon, be it a blue or black belt. They may be asking, in a roundabout manner, if they have made any improvement at all. So, instead of an arrogant question, it may be asked due to a feeling of incompetence- they don't always think about the fact that while they have been learning, so has the student who was just a little more experienced than them when they started.

All in all, any question asked politely by a nice person is not a rude question.

[evergrey]

"I would love to hear what you think about what I need to work on the most." That's what I'd ask.

I don't usually, though. I get so much feedback as it is, haha. Sometimes I'll get a "I don't know what that was supposed to be, but it was terrible" kind of feedback. Sometimes I'll get a tap to the face as feedback (especially if I've dropped my guard.) and sometimes I'll be in the form of "that was good!" That one is more rare, but I know it really means something when I hear it.

Sometimes I'll ask my primary Sensei if he thinks I'm ready to rank up. More often he asks me if I think I am. He isn't usually the one who brings it up to me formally though. That's our head instructor.

I don't think it's really a bad or disrespectful question to ask though. Demanding to get tested for rank is probably disrespectful in a lot of schools- I know it's seen as disrespectful in ours. "Can you evaluate my skill for me so I know where I'm at and what I need to work on" would show me that the student cares and is really determined to improve, and I think I'd be glad to hear that.

[ps1]

All in all, any question asked politely by a nice person is not a rude question.

And that's what it all comes down to. I agree.

[ps1]

Demanding to get tested for rank is probably disrespectful in a lot of schools- I know it's seen as disrespectful in ours.

I agree! There's only one thing I allow my students to demand of me...my best efforts. Beyond that, they can leave their demands at the door.

[DWx]

"I would love to hear what you think about what I need to work on the most."

Think that's a great way to ask the question.

I really don't like it when people demand rank as in "when are you going to give me my belt?" as that is disrespectful... However, asking what to do to improve or what you need to do to get to the next rank is fair enough. I ask it. You need to know which areas you're lacking in. Seems to me we always use the belt system to grade students' ability and knowledge but it's taboo to talk about it or ask about how to advance. Likewise with your manager analogy ps1, if you want to pass any other exam, like high school or college exams, driving tests, whatever, you find out what you need to do to pass the exam and find out which bits you need to improve on.

[tallgeese]

Yes, if the question were asked with sincere intentions then I'd think that it's entirely okay that way.

[Montana]

Any instructor gets asked the "When do I get my next promotion?" question. It's to be expected.

I simply tell them they will get promoted when I think they are ready for it...not before. Each and every one of my students knows what they need to work on, whether to learn or to improve. When they are ready, they get promoted.

[SimonAsh86]

I can honestly say i will never ask, due to me not being too fussed about belt colours. I mean yeah it will be a great honour and privilege to have an indication as to were im at, but at the end of the day, outside the dojo a martial arts belt will not mean a great deal. It is the knowledge you have that will make a difference to your life.

[darksoul]

Ask once - good.

Ask more than once - bad

Bad = punishment

I had a great reply, then got all confused as to which thread it was supposed to be in.

Oh well... time for more coffee.