Thigh Kicks, Shin Blocks!

[shadowspawn]

If you can go for the inside of the thigh, I don't see why you couldn't go for the groin instead. As per the outside of the thigh, it does have its merits, but I personally don't think I would use it as a bread and butter technique. I don't usually trust techniques that rely on pain alone to incapacitate. Some people have a very high pain threshold and a kick to the thigh might just tick them off. Still it could inflict enough pain on some to bring them down, or at least take some weight off of their leg which could allow for an easy sweep but I think a (much faster) front kick to the shin would yield a similar effect but that requires that you be wearing boots or some other hard-soled footwear to be truly effective.

[Ueshirokarate]

You guys mind linking a video to illustrate what you are talking about?

By thigh kicks he's referring to gedan mawashi geri, kicking to either the outside of the thigh or the inside of the thigh. Striking surface is usually the shin or the instep/ankle area (right where the ankle bends).

The shin block is misleading in its name as you really don't want to block with the shin if you can help it. It's mostly used as a defense against low kicks. You basically just raise your knee and try to catch your shin against the front of the thigh (best case scenario) or use it to block their lower leg before it builds up a lot of momentum. See 1:25 for quick examples of both.

Thanks. Thought they were talking about kick checking:

Matsubayashi's kicks are usually kept pretty low, but I feel we have big enough repertoire of kicks as karate styles go. We aren't Tae Kwon Do after all and most of our kicks are focused on the general area of the lower stomach to the feet. We also have the toe-tip kick which is a signature kick to our style. It was developed by Ankichi Arakaki who was one of Shoshin Nagamine's teachers. It takes much work to be able to kick with it barerfoot, but is pretty easy for most with dress shoes on.

Most likely, I would target the inner thigh over the groin. Every hit to that area I have seen brings down a person instantly.

[Kuma]

If you can go for the inside of the thigh, I don't see why you couldn't go for the groin instead.

The groin is a viable target but the title of the thread is thigh kicks after all. A kick to the cookies isn't always the finisher people make it out to be a lot of times as well. Striking major nerves on the other hand is a very effective tactic.

As per the outside of the thigh, it does have its merits, but I personally don't think I would use it as a bread and butter technique. I don't usually trust techniques that rely on pain alone to incapacitate. Some people have a very high pain threshold and a kick to the thigh might just tick them off.

Attacking the outer thigh is one of the main targets police officers go for (whether by knee strike or baton strike typically). That's a favorite target because it's so effective. The last time I actually used a strike to the thigh with a low kick we ended up having to carry our prisoner both to the patrol wagon and then into the jail because he claimed I broke his leg. His leg was fine it was just the charley horse he got that made him think otherwise.

[Kuma]

Thanks. Thought they were talking about kick checking:

Same thing basically. Most knockdown styles just refer to it as sune uke which translates to shin block. The concept is the same though which makes sense as Kyokushin fighters got the idea from fighting Thai boxers back in the day.

[Dobbersky]

Going on from this

With regards to Shin Blocks, for those who practice them do you perform it "toes up" or "toes down"?

I tend to do a mixture depending on the situation, Its excellent against someone who's never had their kicks checked before lol

But then again so are thigh kicks, in open sparring, where they are allowed, it only takes a good 2 or 4 thigh kicks to put the opponent on the floor hehehe

[Wastelander]

We work both thigh kicks and shin blocks, and to answer Dobbersky's question we train the shin block toes up, but I usually end up with my foot at an angle rather than up or down when I actually do them. I LOVE thigh kicks--they work really well in combinations and drop people who don't train for them pretty quickly. Ev mentioned doing a hook kick to the sciatic nerve, which is actually something I've been playing with but haven't done to anybody in sparring yet. It's kind of amusing how people who do not train for leg kicks (or at all) have no idea how effective they can be.

My previous instructor actually told a story once about when he and a group of other American karateka were traveling around Asia to train and spar, and they ended up sparring with some guys in Thailand who smashed their legs. The story went that the karateka had never trained for thigh kicks and didn't really think anything of it when they started getting kicked there so they never bothered to block them because, "hey, they're just kicking me in the legs." When they sat down between rounds, though, they discovered that after a while they couldn't stand back up from their seat because the muscles in their legs knotted so badly. After hearing that story, though, it always made me wonder why we hardly ever worked thigh kicks at that dojo

[MasterPain]

Going on from this

With regards to Shin Blocks, for those who practice them do you perform it "toes up" or "toes down"?

I tend to do a mixture depending on the situation, Its excellent against someone who's never had their kicks checked before lol

But then again so are thigh kicks, in open sparring, where they are allowed, it only takes a good 2 or 4 thigh kicks to put the opponent on the floor hehehe

I go somewhere between toes up or down, just a relaxed ankle. It keeps me from getting kicked in the ankle joint. Often, instead of checking, I turn my knee toward the kick with my foot still planted in the ground, bend my knee a bit and flex my quads. This allows better footing for counter punching while they are setting their foot down. You still take a hit, but it doesn't hurt your hip joint or dig into your femur. Which, a good deep thigh kick should be felt in the victim's hip joint if thrown with intent, otherwise you're kicking too shallow.

[Ueshirokarate]

Thanks. Thought they were talking about kick checking:

Same thing basically. Most knockdown styles just refer to it as sune uke which translates to shin block. The concept is the same though which makes sense as Kyokushin fighters got the idea from fighting Thai boxers back in the day.

These techniques are peppered all over Matsubayashi katas, the same thing with some of Mai Thai's elbow strikes. Given the regional proximity of Thailand, China and Okinawa, I wouldn't doubt for a second that there was some cross pollination going on between fighters in these various countries. Heck, they probably fought one another from time to time and those that survived said wow, did you see that technique to their buddies?

[evergrey]

Haha yeah, it wasn't just pain compliance. Sorry if I gave that impression! It can cause muscle knotting, muscle cramps, and it can even make the leg go numb and useless briefly. I've experienced all of these, and they are not fun!

Going after the legs is a favorite of mine because I'm so short, and my reach is so short, that tall people who are kickers can take me apart long before I can get to them. If I CAN get in, however, I work at cutting down the tree, so to speak, so I can get to the branches, haha!

[yamesu]

mika zuki and fumikomi leg blocks not good enough to counter thigh kicks?

Mikazuki would probably be way too slow and probably wouldn't stop much of the power. If by fumikomi you mean to the thigh as a sort of stop kick it can work but you need excellent timing and speed to pull it off. Sune uke is more of your last line of defense if something like trying a stop kick fails. Footwork should be your first defense. Can't hit something if you're not there anymore.

Solid post. Osu.