Instructional question

[arkangelx]

I was just wondering if anyone could tell me what rank a shodan senpai is allowed to award when taking a kyokushin grading?

[evergrey]

OSU!

I think it depends on which organization you are talking about.

I BELIEVE it used to be in our org that a Shodan could rank someone to 1st kyu... but I think they had to have authorization to do that, and ranking had to be authorized by the branch chief. I could be wrong though, it all seems to have gotten a bit muddy, factwise, at this point.

I know that in the old unified Sosai-still-alive IKO days, any Shodan or above had to be signed by the branch chief, and then mailed with the fees and paperwork to Sosai Oyama himself to approve and make a certificate for. The certs were hand-signed and watermarked and stamped, and all dan ranks had a number that was entered into the record books.

Now, well... it's kind of a case of anything goes, just depends on the school and the org.

[arkangelx]

Thankyou evergrey for your insight into the matter, I appreciate your assistance

OSU!!

[evergrey]

OSU, you're welcome. :} May I ask why you ask? Just curious!

[Dobbersky]

All

Most Organisations only allow Dan Grades to award to 2 levels below them so a Shodan (1st dan) would only be able to grade to 2nd Kyu (Nikyu)

and a 2nd Dan to 1st Kyu etc

that's my take on it anyways

OSU

[bushido_man96]

All

Most Organisations only allow Dan Grades to award to 2 levels below them so a Shodan (1st dan) would only be able to grade to 2nd Kyu (Nikyu)

and a 2nd Dan to 1st Kyu etc

that's my take on it anyways

OSU

This has been my experience, as well. When dealing with black belt ranks, two judges of the appropriate rank were required.

[arkangelx]

in reply to evergrey's "OSU, you're welcome. :} May I ask why you ask? Just curious!"

The reason I asked is that my instructor at the moment is a shodan despite his 30 years of experience in this great art (He was more focused on training himself up for torniments then grading). That being said I was asking so that I would know how far up the chain he was allowed to grade me.

OSU!!

[Dobbersky]

in reply to evergrey's "OSU, you're welcome. :} May I ask why you ask? Just curious!"

The reason I asked is that my instructor at the moment is a shodan despite his 30 years of experience in this great art (He was more focused on training himself up for tournaments then grading). That being said I was asking so that I would know how far up the chain he was allowed to grade me.

OSU!!

This annoys me somewhat, an Instructor has a "DUTY" to work through the grades as if he is a lower Yudansha, he in fact is getting the way of his own student's progression!

Most gradings are usually till 3rd or 4th Dan then time served afterwards, I am fortunate to be at this level but it was a very had slog to get there.

As I've always said, there are 2 main paths a Karateka can follow, that as an Instructor where one sacrifices his own fight career to teach others or as a fighter where one has to have full discipline to ones OWN preparation for each fight.

[Ueshirokarate]

in reply to evergrey's "OSU, you're welcome. :} May I ask why you ask? Just curious!"

The reason I asked is that my instructor at the moment is a shodan despite his 30 years of experience in this great art (He was more focused on training himself up for tournaments then grading). That being said I was asking so that I would know how far up the chain he was allowed to grade me.

OSU!!

This annoys me somewhat, an Instructor has a "DUTY" to work through the grades as if he is a lower Yudansha, he in fact is getting the way of his own student's progression!

Most gradings are usually till 3rd or 4th Dan then time served afterwards, I am fortunate to be at this level but it was a very had slog to get there.

As I've always said, there are 2 main paths a Karateka can follow, that as an Instructor where one sacrifices his own fight career to teach others or as a fighter where one has to have full discipline to ones OWN preparation for each fight.

I really like the way you are graded in BJJ. There is no formality in it, your instructor just bumps you up when they know you are at the next level. There is no testing, as you are testing on the mat each time you train, as you should be on the deck in karate or any martial art in my opinion. I can understand if you are the head instructor at your school and needing to travel to be tested, but if you train with someone a few ranks higher than you...

I don't think a fighting career and the "the instructor path" should be mutually exclusive. I also don't think either is relevant to grading. IMHO, grading should depend solely on your martial ability. Hence if this person who focused on self-training and competition has trained themselves to the level of 8th Dan, they should be graded as such.

[evergrey]

Well, let me talk about how grading is done in my dojo at present.

All students are tested every day, of course. Occasionally an adult will get surprise graded. Once in a while, our Shihan, who is the head of our little organization, will just decide to grade someone up, if they are one of his personal students. He has been in Kyokushin for 45 years, and has the good judgment and experience needed to make a call like that.

MOST of the time, however, grading/ranking/etc is done on a formal day when all of the different classes come together to test. There are usually 4 or 5 judges, depending on how many Yudansha are present. Kata is judged and graded on, kumite (which is longer and more intense) is judged but not given points like the kata. Everyone just watches and confers later, I believe.

Our kyu rank tests are relatively short, because they've already been approved to go up for rank before being told they're going to test, though people testing CAN and DO fail ranking. That happens, not all the time, but often enough. The tests are real.

Because we don't tend to have ranking last all day (all our instructors have day jobs) we just have the kata portion, which is at most 4 kata per student, but often just 1 kata, depending on the rank, and then the kumite portion. The higher the rank of the student, the more rounds of kumite they must do, and often they actually do double that amount, at least, because they must also spar the other students during THEIR kumite test.

Often the adults mostly have to spar the dan ranks, lol! There are usually more black belts than colored belts present at ranking day. Actually, we often have more black belts than colored belts in class, too. It takes a long time to get to black belt, but we're fortunate enough to have a good number of loyal dan ranks. As for kyus, many wash out, over time, but the dedicated remain.

My next rank, I think I will have 5 rounds of kumite in a row... unless Shihan or somebody else in charge decides they want a second piece of me, then maybe I'll fight more than 5 rounds, lol! Then I'll also fight other adults, probably, and very likely some kids as well.

Our dojo is strange in that we don't get results right away. It's a throwback from the days when our branch chief/organization head (depending on which era you're talking about) went through all the paperwork and made certs and all that.

Now only dan ranks get certs in our org, and tallying could be done at the ranking, but they still make us wait. I don't know why and I know better than to ask, lol! Once I didn't find out I'd passed one test until a couple weeks before my NEXT test, hahaha! That one was a bit much, I admit.

That's not typical for Kyokushin though. Most people find out the night of the test.

Your instructor MIGHT be able to promote you to his own rank. I've heard of that too... but no higher.

I am not going to say what he should do. If I were him though, I'd see if there was some way for me to test for the next rank, or to take my students to someone higher ranked in my org, if possible. But then he's be teaching people who out-ranked him. Kind of awkward, hah!

At a certain level, too, what's the rank mean? Some people just go for higher and higher rank, whereas others just keep to the rank that Sosai Mas Oyama awarded them.

All kind of complicated and confusing.

Back in the day, when my Sensei tested for Nidan, HIS Sensei tested, on the same day, for Sandan. LOL!

Though back in the day, my Sensei had to do a 50 man kumite as a PREREQUISITE for testing for his SHODAN. Then he had to fight 5 kyu ranks at the ranking, which he had to beat, and 5 dan ranks. At that test, there weren't enough non-judges to provide as kumite partners. My sensei fought a shodan twice, and then had to fight his own sensei three times, lol! And his sensei, now our Shihan and the head of our org, is an absolutely unstoppable BEAST. He is 60 now and I would NEVER want to seriously tangle with him, hahaha!

OSU