Shihan, Shihan Dai, Soke, Grand Master etc!

[Dobbersky]

All,

Being just a humble Sensei and I will always be just that, I have met many a senior Martial Artist in my days and I find that there is a different array of personalities within the ranks

I would say that the 5th to 7th Dans are really humble, approachable, eager to assist and explain things to ALL students regards of the belt around the waist.

Now I've met some senior grades 8th Dan and above (in person and online) and it made me think if this is what being at this level means that this is how you have to behave, I would rather they kept the title and it made me realise that being a Martial Artist DOESN'T make you automatically a NICE person.

There has been some really nasty and egotistical characters in my martial arts lifetime. A shame as I remember them more than I remember the humble Hanshi's etc who would work with a white belt with the same enthusiam as they would with their senior Shihans.

Can anyone else add their experiences of meeting and training with senior Grades in person and online.

OSU!!!

[sensei8]

I'm sorry that you've had some bad experiences with 8th Dans! I can only hope that I've not been one of them. If so, please find a way in your heart to forgive me.

As a 8th Dan, it angers me when I read things like this because I don't want to be associated with and/or lumped in with them just because we share the rank. It is said...one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.

I would say that the 5th to 7th Dans are really humble, approachable, eager to assist and explain things to ALL students regards of the belt around the waist.

This is how I've always been; past, present, and future. The betterment of ALL students means everything to me, and with me, it shall always be that.

[Chunmonchek]

Martial Artists are just people, no matter what they strap around their waist or what title they assume.

Generally, it has been my experience that those Sensei that are insecure about their ability, knowledge, lineage/history, and/or experience are the most egotistical, nasty, unapproachable and aloof.

Instead of trashing anyone, I'll share some of my positive experiences...

...I've had the priviledge of training with Sensei Matsumura Yoichiro and Sensei Ogasawara Norimi and several occasions, 2 very high ranking Judo (as well as karate) Sensei. They both were very hands on, and were willing to teach anyone willing to learn. They both sat on my grading board for my Shodan examination. I will never forget seeing them after my grading sitting on a swing-set outside, just hanging out with each other (they were co-captains of their University Judo team in Japan).

...Back in the early 90's I had the opportunity to train at the Kodokan in Okinawa with Sensei Matayoshi Shinpo. He was very gracious, and spent some time with me after each class going over kobudo and Goju. We went out to eat a few times, and had one of his senior students pick me up from, and drop me off to, my hotel.

...On that same trip I trained at the Meibukan with Sensei Yagi Meitatsu, who was also very gracious. We spent time on the floor after class, at his home and at various restaurants. I went to Oki with no plans or arrangements. I just showed up on the Island with my gi and a letter of introduction from a good friend and Senior who trained at both the Meibukan and the Kodokan back in the mid 70's. The owner of the hotel called Sensei Yagi, who, within an hour, came by to meet me. He read my letter of introduction, then immediately took me to visit Sensei Matayoshi. I never saw what was in that letter! As a side note, the late Dai Sensei Yagi Meitoku customarily taught the childrens class in his later years. After those classes he would often give out cookies to the kids.

...my teacher, Kow Loon (Kayo) Ong, is one of the most knowledgeable and best Okinawan Goju practitioners and Sensei that I've ever met (and I've met and trained with more than a few). Kayo teaches anyone, of any age and of any ability. He's done this all over the world. All he asks is that you train and not forget what he teaches you.

Funny thing is...I've seen people who have trained under the above gentlemen who are less willing to help others than them.

Chris

[Dobbersky]

I'm sorry that you've had some bad experiences with 8th Dans! I can only hope that I've not been one of them. If so, please find a way in your heart to forgive me.

As a 8th Dan, it angers me when I read things like this because I don't want to be associated with and/or lumped in with them just because we share the rank. It is said...one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.

I would say that the 5th to 7th Dans are really humble, approachable, eager to assist and explain things to ALL students regards of the belt around the waist.

This is how I've always been; past, present, and future. The betterment of ALL students means everything to me, and with me, it shall always be that.

Sensei, definately NOT you, YOU are one of the good ones, your knowledge and experience you are always ready to pass on etc.

Martial Artists are just people, no matter what they strap around their waist or what title they assume.

Generally, it has been my experience that those Sensei that are insecure about their ability, knowledge, lineage/history, and/or experience are the most egotistical, nasty, unapproachable and aloof.

Instead of trashing anyone, I'll share some of my positive experiences...

Funny thing is...I've seen people who have trained under the above gentlemen who are less willing to help others than them.

Chris

I wonder then is it just the "European" Shihans/Hanshis etc that have this "issue"?

Two of the main "characters" which I will give a brief outlay 1 was a Wado Ryu Hanshi and 1 was a Kenpo "Jujitsu" "Dai Shihan" from various areas of the world. So as you can see its not from a specific Art, as you have the mix of the "Formal" Japanese art of Wado Ryu and the "Mongrel" Art of Kenpo Jujitsu (As Kenpo was/is a cooking pot of varying influences is the reason why I used "Mongrel" it is no means meant to be derogatory as I know Kenpo has some really strong lineages)

[Chunmonchek]

I doubt its just a European thing. I've seen wanna-be's from the USA, Canada, the Carribean, the UK, and even from Asia. It seems to be human nature at work.

A friend and very Senior American Goju practioner once told me that the biggest mistake that the Americans/Euorpeans did was to treat the Okinawan Sensei as demi-gods. Pretty soon many of these Okinawans became to expect this...hey they're only human. This gave the Okinawan Sensei a great amount of power over their students and student's students. Power corrupts...and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This friend began training Goju in Okinawa back in 1961, and saw this evolving early on; and my teacher lived it in the late 60's early 70's.

Many non-asians figured out the game, and broke away forming their own Ryu or Kan, and then crowning themselves with extravagent titles.

If you take a step back and look at things objectively, many martial arts organizations look and smell like huge pyramid schemes, with money flowing to the top. That said, I see no wrong with the structure if quality instruction, knowledge and art flows back down.

Many who lack real skill, knowledge, lineage, and relationships need to use the "smoke and mirrors" of titles, hierarchy and the untouchable/unapproachable master in order to protect their rice bowl.

[evergrey]

I'm really lucky in that our Shihan (7th dan) and head instructor (5th dan) are both total sweethearts who give lots of time to the newest white belt, and lots of time to the seasoned students as well. They are gracious hosts when a guest comes to work out with us, and always willing to talk to students before or after class, so long as they don't have to jet out of these for something important.

Most of the Shihans I have met have been pretty nice folks, actually. There are a few who aren't, and certainly some fakers who aren't. Some can be creepers too. They're human!

But most have been great. I just love Sensei8. Totally welcome to share my meal anytime.

OSU!

[GeterDone]

I cant say how other shihans have treated me because I've only had the pleasure of talking to one, our very own sensei8. The dojo I attend is headed by our sensei who studied different martial arts and is hoping to earn his 6th dan in Goju-Ryu, although he still has his 5th dan.

I wouldn't say a martial artist's attitude is a direct reflection of their ranking. The dojo I attend has frequently had black belts of the same or different styles drop by. For example, one of the shodans was a complete jerk, not only to kyu-ranked students but also to the other black belts that were present. His technique was a bit sloppy and whenever someone pointed that out, he took it as a personal attack. Likewise, other shodans have been absolutely amazing and very helpful.

[bushido_man96]

Some people are just that way. For all the character development and what not that are supposed to go in the the "traditional" MAs, it just doesn't always take hold. More than likely, is it takes hold with those who already have a pretty strong character. Not everyone is a nice person.

[ShotokanMaster]

MY Shihan is so cool he teach us fun great and awesome techniques in shotokan and in kick boxing I like the take down and the sweeps that is awesome and my sensie his a Motivator He make sure we do our technique and form good if my sensie and shihan have attitude i wouldnt' go to their dojo. and IM amaze that my shihan would let me go to the advance class and im only orange belt because i only seen green or purple belts go to advance class when i get to green ill be in advance class. what the used of being a shihan 8 da or 10 dan if you got an attitude problem thats not good

[kensei]

Here is my bad and good.

One high ranking instructor I used to train with was great on the floor. Joked about and taught classes with a great amount of humor and was very personable at seminars, but the minute this guy was off the floor...dead pan and no personality, he acted like it was a horrible thing to be here teaching and he did not socialize. His junior on the other hand would come out and while on the floor he was a task master that would drill us into the floor, he was great to train under if you liked almost being killed each class....it was great! Off the floor, what a great guy, funny talked to kids and hugged you and was fantastic.

the other good one that I have trained with is Saeki Sensei out of Ottawa. The guy is very nice. One camp I mentioned off handed that I really liked a shirt he was wearing. I was being polite and trying to make small talk (it really was a great golf shirt however).. Did not think much of it and went back to my hotel that night. Next day I was given a plastic bag with the shirt in it. He went home and laundered it and then gave it to me......I was floored. He is a great Karate teacher as well!Fantastic Human being and the kind of guy you want to be part of an organization with.