Your Instructor Has Just Been Convicted!!

[JusticeZero]

I think that it is an expression of mistrust in the authority of the jury to discover unbiased truth. Which, IF ones instructor is in a particularly awful portion of the kyriarchial totem pole, is not necessarily a bad doubt to have.

If ones instructor was a white, male, well-to-do, married, upstanding member of society, then there is little if any doubt that they were in fact guilty.

If ones instructor has a few layers of "minority" associated with them, and you are in an area that is known to have a fair amount of corruption in the system? That trust might not be as firm.

In my area for instance, I have friends who are LEOs who advise me to be wary of other LEO's, and comment about how they have too many people wearing badges who should have been behind bars.

We've had a whole string of serious police corruption scandals in the newspaper lately where i'm living now. Some of the handling of the Danziger 7 left bad tastes in peoples' mouths, then there were some other sketchy shootings, scandals with traffic cameras, et cetera.

If someone around here is poor and black and gets convicted, the public opinion is going to be a lot closer to "We're not sure if he was guilty or if he was just the closest person to pin something to". If the circumstances were sufficiently shaky, and the right people take offense at the details, my reputation might even INCREASE were that to happen.

Situational of course, but something some people have to consider.

[MasterPain]

Convictions are made by a dozen of your neighbors...

Have you SEEN those people?!

I'm sorry but I don't understand the question.

If someone has been CONVICTED in a court of law, then I don't have to see anything.

I'm saying I have more faith in my instructor's integrity than I do in that of 12 people who I don't know. For that matter, I don't think I could hand pick 12 people who match his integrity in my mind. People around here seem to think that if you are arrested you must be guilty. I had someone literally say that to me in a jury I was the foreman of. That rattled my already shaky view of the justice system.

[MasterPain]

I think that it is an expression of mistrust in the authority of the jury to discover unbiased truth. Which, IF ones instructor is in a particularly awful portion of the kyriarchial totem pole, is not necessarily a bad doubt to have.

If ones instructor was a white, male, well-to-do, married, upstanding member of society, then there is little if any doubt that they were in fact guilty.

If ones instructor has a few layers of "minority" associated with them, and you are in an area that is known to have a fair amount of corruption in the system? That trust might not be as firm.

In my area for instance, I have friends who are LEOs who advise me to be wary of other LEO's, and comment about how they have too many people wearing badges who should have been behind bars.

We've had a whole string of serious police corruption scandals in the newspaper lately where i'm living now. Some of the handling of the Danziger 7 left bad tastes in peoples' mouths, then there were some other sketchy shootings, scandals with traffic cameras, et cetera.

If someone around here is poor and black and gets convicted, the public opinion is going to be a lot closer to "We're not sure if he was guilty or if he was just the closest person to pin something to". If the circumstances were sufficiently shaky, and the right people take offense at the details, my reputation might even INCREASE were that to happen.

Situational of course, but something some people have to consider.

BINGO! Well said.

[sensei8]

I think that it is an expression of mistrust in the authority of the jury to discover unbiased truth. Which, IF ones instructor is in a particularly awful portion of the kyriarchial totem pole, is not necessarily a bad doubt to have.

If ones instructor was a white, male, well-to-do, married, upstanding member of society, then there is little if any doubt that they were in fact guilty.

If ones instructor has a few layers of "minority" associated with them, and you are in an area that is known to have a fair amount of corruption in the system? That trust might not be as firm.

In my area for instance, I have friends who are LEOs who advise me to be wary of other LEO's, and comment about how they have too many people wearing badges who should have been behind bars.

We've had a whole string of serious police corruption scandals in the newspaper lately where i'm living now. Some of the handling of the Danziger 7 left bad tastes in peoples' mouths, then there were some other sketchy shootings, scandals with traffic cameras, et cetera.

If someone around here is poor and black and gets convicted, the public opinion is going to be a lot closer to "We're not sure if he was guilty or if he was just the closest person to pin something to". If the circumstances were sufficiently shaky, and the right people take offense at the details, my reputation might even INCREASE were that to happen.

Situational of course, but something some people have to consider.

I'm only asking hypothetical questions, in that, I think Wrong Convictions are for another thread because that's a whole bunch of things.

[sensei8]

Convictions are made by a dozen of your neighbors...

Have you SEEN those people?!

I'm sorry but I don't understand the question.

If someone has been CONVICTED in a court of law, then I don't have to see anything.

I'm saying I have more faith in my instructor's integrity than I do in that of 12 people who I don't know. For that matter, I don't think I could hand pick 12 people who match his integrity in my mind. People around here seem to think that if you are arrested you must be guilty. I had someone literally say that to me in a jury I was the foreman of. That rattled my already shaky view of the justice system.

Still, a conviction is a conviction.

[Groinstrike]

We can discuss hypotheticals all day, but the real question seems to be this...How strong is your loyalty to your Sensei/Dojo/Association???

As for me I have a heck of a lot more loyalty to my instructor than i do to most people in my life. Is he a demigod in my eyes, no. Has he made mistakes in life, yes. That being said, he is a good man with a good moral compass. But if he were to make a mistake such as this i am confident that unless he betrayed another member of our association, we would forgive and try to carry on.

We have had at least one person in our association who betrayed another member. He betrayed his teacher of 20+years, He is no longer spoken of.

[sensei8]

We can discuss hypotheticals all day, but the real question seems to be this...How strong is your loyalty to your Sensei/Dojo/Association???

As for me I have a heck of a lot more loyalty to my instructor than i do to most people in my life. Is he a demigod in my eyes, no. Has he made mistakes in life, yes. That being said, he is a good man with a good moral compass. But if he were to make a mistake such as this i am confident that unless he betrayed another member of our association, we would forgive and try to carry on.

We have had at least one person in our association who betrayed another member. He betrayed his teacher of 20+years, He is no longer spoken of.

Then I guess I'm about to lose all of your respect with what I'm about to say...How strong is your loyalty to your Sensei/Dojo/Association??? If my Dai-Soke had been CONVICTED of a crime involving moral turpitude, most, but not all...I'd walk away from him and never speak of him ever again, and I love him more than any man I've ever loved, even more than my dad!!

Some I will never associate myself with no matter what!!

[Groinstrike]

We can discuss hypotheticals all day, but the real question seems to be this...How strong is your loyalty to your Sensei/Dojo/Association???

As for me I have a heck of a lot more loyalty to my instructor than i do to most people in my life. Is he a demigod in my eyes, no. Has he made mistakes in life, yes. That being said, he is a good man with a good moral compass. But if he were to make a mistake such as this i am confident that unless he betrayed another member of our association, we would forgive and try to carry on.

We have had at least one person in our association who betrayed another member. He betrayed his teacher of 20+years, He is no longer spoken of.

Then I guess I'm about to lose all of your respect with what I'm about to say...How strong is your loyalty to your Sensei/Dojo/Association??? If my Dai-Soke had been CONVICTED of a crime involving moral turpitude, most, but not all...I'd walk away from him and never speak of him ever again, and I love him more than any man I've ever loved, even more than my dad!!

Some I will never associate myself with no matter what!!

If i gain or lose respect for anyone based on what they post on the internet, i need to get a life.

[MasterPain]

My house is much too brittle to toss many rocks around. I'm not sure of turpitude, but I'm sure I could be accused of an occasional bit of hubris.

[still kicking]

Some good posts from Evil Dave re: the particulars, and Justice Zero re: the issue of unequal justice in the court system. As I recall from a time I Googled "moral turpitude" a while back (since I was curious as to the exact meaning), the term was coined quite a while ago. Of course, what is acceptable in society changes, and what is acceptable in one society is not acceptable in another. While I would want and expect my sensei to be of high ethical standards, I also realize that he is human. In terms of the actual offenses that could be considered "moral turpitude", I think there are gray areas. In my profession I work with many low income people, and I can't tell you how many have been convicted of assault based on being a bit inebriated and in a scuffle where it was not really clear what happened, so both people were charged with assault. Adultery? I'm pretty sure there are a few high ranking senseis who are guilty of that offense, which in my view is between that person and his or her partner. Not all that admirable, maybe, but perhaps forgiveable. All I am saying is, I think there are gray areas, and I would need more information before making my decision!