Defense against grapplers

[Ueshirokarate]

Anyone spent some time playing with karate techniques for defending against Judo/BJJ take down techniques?

[Wastelander]

Anyone spent some time playing with karate techniques for defending against Judo/BJJ take down techniques?

Dropping into shiko-dachi/kiba-dachi definitely help you maintain your balance while grappling and I've used it to stop judo throws before, and shooting a leg back into a long, deep zenkutsu-dachi when they shoot for a double- or single-leg takedown sets you up nicely to roll them. Between that and general skills of deflecting an attacker it works fine for defending against unskilled attackers but it's a little limited for dealing with a skilled grappler--it's always best to train a grappling art to learn how to defend against a grappler.

[Ueshirokarate]

Anyone spent some time playing with karate techniques for defending against Judo/BJJ take down techniques?

Dropping into shiko-dachi/kiba-dachi definitely help you maintain your balance while grappling and I've used it to stop judo throws before, and shooting a leg back into a long, deep zenkutsu-dachi when they shoot for a double- or single-leg takedown sets you up nicely to roll them. Between that and general skills of deflecting an attacker it works fine for defending against unskilled attackers but it's a little limited for dealing with a skilled grappler--it's always best to train a grappling art to learn how to defend against a grappler.

Funny, this is why I took up judo for a while as I wanted to understand a grappling style. I now train in my karate style and BJJ. I have given quite a bit of thought to this subject and I do believe it has given me much deeper insight into kata techniques. In fact, my first line of defense would be exactly what you said above. Although the bunkai for a down-block in zenkutsu-dachi is to block a kick, it is far more effective as a lunge strike or in this case a defense against a grappler trying for a takedown.

My question was more directed to the idea of actually training to defend against these techniques, rather than just studying two arts. Do you drill against throws and other take downs?

[Wastelander]

Anyone spent some time playing with karate techniques for defending against Judo/BJJ take down techniques?

Dropping into shiko-dachi/kiba-dachi definitely help you maintain your balance while grappling and I've used it to stop judo throws before, and shooting a leg back into a long, deep zenkutsu-dachi when they shoot for a double- or single-leg takedown sets you up nicely to roll them. Between that and general skills of deflecting an attacker it works fine for defending against unskilled attackers but it's a little limited for dealing with a skilled grappler--it's always best to train a grappling art to learn how to defend against a grappler.

Funny, this is why I took up judo for a while as I wanted to understand a grappling style. I now train in my karate style and BJJ. I have given quite a bit of thought to this subject and I do believe it has given me much deeper insight into kata techniques. In fact, my first line of defense would be exactly what you said above. Although the bunkai for a down-block in zenkutsu-dachi is to block a kick, it is far more effective as a lunge strike or in this case a defense against a grappler trying for a takedown.

My question was more directed to the idea of actually training to defend against these techniques, rather than just studying two arts. Do you drill against throws and other take downs?

Ah, yes, we do drill against throws and takedowns, but mostly things like front- and rear-suplexes and double- and single-leg takedowns because they are pretty common--anyone who has wrestled understands the ideas behind both, and most football players can pull them off as well. Since I have judo experience and my instructor has jujutsu experience, we do tend to use a lot of other sweeps and throws in our drills but we don't train against them in karate, specifically, because we train against them when we grapple or do MMA-style training.

[Jack Slack]

Most karateka are adept at fighting southpaw, which is an excellent defense against grapplers who fight orthodox.

A quick look at Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida and Mirko Cro Cop will reveal how much easier it is to stuff a shot from an orthodox fighter against a southpaw.

Most of the time, because of the distance, Anderson and Lyoto's opponents are forced to pick up a single leg rather than their double leg takedown, which of course is much easier to defend.

[MasterPain]

My question was more directed to the idea of actually training to defend against these techniques, rather than just studying two arts. Do you drill against throws and other take downs?

The trouble with not bringing in the other art is that your uke will not be very good. Someone who has never trained with a decent wrestler can not give you a decent double leg to defend against. Before practicing club disarms, I want my uke to have some degree of competence in some sort of Brain Bashing Jutsu.

[MasterPain]

Most karateka are adept at fighting southpaw, which is an excellent defense against grapplers who fight orthodox.

A quick look at Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida and Mirko Cro Cop will reveal how much easier it is to stuff a shot from an orthodox fighter against a southpaw.

Most of the time, because of the distance, Anderson and Lyoto's opponents are forced to pick up a single leg rather than their double leg takedown, which of course is much easier to defend.

Good point about the open stance. Open and closed stance create very different games.

[ps1]

Learn to sprawl to avoid the shot.

Learn to frame the neck and step back into a zenkutsu dachi to avoid a clinch.

Being skilled at those two things will serve you very well against average takedown artists. The simple fact is you WILL get taken down against above average and elite takedown artists at will unless you take the time to train grappling arts.

If you're only concerned with takedowns, take wrestling. Judo rules do not allow leg attacks as primary moves anymore and will give you very little skill in stopping a wrestler (which is a hugely popular sport in the US. )

[sensei8]

Live and with an unwilling uke; these are how Shindokanists practice againt Judo/BJJ like attacks...over and over and over and..., in anyway possible. I want my uke to try to kill me, otherwise, a compliant uke won't reveal my weaknesses, on the same hand, a fighting uke will, imho.

We try to train with those practitioner types, Judo/BJJ, outside of the dojo's/Hombu as much as we can. To know your opponent means to understand your opponent and their vices and the like.

[tallgeese]

I'll second what's been said above once, the best way to defeat grappling attacks (takedowns too) is to learn to grapple. ps1 give solid advice to the tactics, the best way to learn these is by studying a grappling style. As MP stated, if your partner does not have an adequate understanding of said takedown (or grappling tactics) they can't give you a good feed.

To do well against a grappler, you have to train to be one.