Who's job is it to tap?

[tallgeese]

I'm pretty sure the only way I'd really break something on someone would be in a competion where it's definately up to the opponent and reff's job to stop the action before that is the out come. And of course a self defense situation. Now the second question.

What if the non tapping individual is say around three years training and hoping to hold out long enough you bail on the position and then trys to go full bore as you're giving them a get out of jail free card?

I'd agree with ps1 on this in his reply. In addition, I'd say that if that's how this guy rolls, then I just wouldn't roll with him any more. If you've explained the tap thing, then explained what you're trying to accomplish with TRAINING (sometimes guys like the ones your talking about have trouble understanding this) and he still goes like this then I just don't waste my time rolling with them. Plenty of other guys on the mat that get it. More than hurting someone, this starts to correct the problem when the subject in question starts to realize that he's sitting on the mat alone while everyone else rolls.

When we talk about street self defense, I think almost everyone will move to the do whatever you need to, to win. I don't think anyone, even me will have a problem with that. Bear in mind, of course, that force used still needs to be objectively reasonable. But if you've risen to fighting, it's most likely for your life and this isn't as difficult to articulate as some would think.

As to comps, I'll tap every time I think someone has something. I have to work for a living and my work won't pay disability if I'm hurt off duty. Tapping is smart thing for me. I'll never expect an opponent in a comp to lay off if I'm too stubborn to tap. However, I can also say, for me (and I've discovered this for a fact) I won't crank a sub so hard in a comp that I think will actually hurt someone. It's a piece of plastic at a (at best) regional level event that's on the line. Defiantly not worth me taking someone else out of work for however long to stand on the podium with.

But that's just me.

[GeterDone]

I'd say I'm an intermediate I or II for judo going by ps1's post (we don't use blue belts so I'm unfamiliar with your belt system but that's for another time and place). If I'm caught in a submission, I try my very best to get out of it or release the pressure and put something on my partner. If I feel I'm going to pass out, then I tap and same with any joint locks. I'd rather be able to roll again than have a doctor put me back together. At our dojo, other than the Sensei, one brown-belt, one purple-belt and myself, everyone else has very little to no grappling experience. Some tap the moment I get a take-down or before I put pressure on a submission.

Other students refuse to tap even when they're about to pass out or when I feel the limb is going to break if I put just a slight bit more pressure. At that point, I just let them go and tell them I had the submission, it's their job to tap because I don't want to send them to the hospital in pieces. I always ask if they feel fine and if so, we start again.

There is one student in particular who has a few months of jiu-jitsu experience, mostly from reading books and rolling with his brother. No matter how many times he's told to tap by other students, myself or the Sensei, he just won't. Ironically though, he does admit he was caught in a submission and knew he was in trouble, so I'm not sure if it's a matter of pride or panic. When he gets someone else in a submission, he doesn't let go into they're literally hammering on the mat, yelling or someone with grappling experience or the Sensei tells him to release. Recently, whenever he rolls with someone, the Sensei, another black-belt or brown-belt student hovers over him to get him to release right away.

[ps1]

I'd say I'm an intermediate I or II for judo going by ps1's post (we don't use blue belts so I'm unfamiliar with your belt system but that's for another time and place).

The Brazilian Jiu-jitsu Belt system is White, Blue, Purple, Brown, Black

On average it takes about 1.5yrs to go from white to blue, 2 to 3 years to go from blue to purple, 2 to 3 years to go from purple to brown, and 1.5 to 2 years from brown to black. Generally, 8 to 12 years from White to Black.

These numbers can vary drastically from one school or association to the next.

There is one student in particular who has a few months of jiu-jitsu experience, mostly from reading books and rolling with his brother.

This is called a person with no jiu-jitsu experience.

[MaxMarks]

I say be a leader and tell them they need to tap. The bottom line is the dojo needs to be a safe place to train. People that bring their ego in in a way that is harmful to themselves or other people are a threat to that. If a higher rank wants to hold out a little long that's fine, beyond that the words, "you need to tap," go along way. So, let them out of the submission then in a tactful way tell them they need to tap.