Kenpo in America

[Ueshirokarate]

The origin of the dogi itself is pretty hotly contested.

I still want a black one.

The dogi was a more socially acceptable thing to wear than the traditional loincloth.

I'll take a black one...

Yeah loincloth . Thank God the gi was invented.

[evergrey]

Yeah I think I would basically refuse to train in a loincloth.

[Dobbersky]

OSU!

Actually, Sosai never had a problem with it.

http://www.niceboots.org/~evergrey/Kyokushin/Misc/WhiteandOyama.jpg

That'd be Sosai in the blue suit, and my Shihan in the black dogi, heh. You can see the kanku patch on his arm, a bit. This was in I think 1991 or 1992. My Shihan trained with Sosai from time to time, way back in the day.

OSU

OSU, Was your Shihan one of the many Kenpo schools that transitioned over to Kyokushin in the 1970's & 1980's as I am sure I can see the Generic Kenpo badge on his left side of his Gi.

OSU!!!

[evergrey]

OSU,

No. Absolutely not. That is a Kyokushin kanku badge, with a yellow border around the edge, which is the bit of alteration on the design that Don Buck made. Don Buck (not to be confused with Fred Buck) met Sosai in 1955, and started learning from him back then. Sosai was in the San Francisco area visiting Duke Moore, who was a Judoka. Buck was taining under him, and he and Sosai became friends at that time.

Buck because a branch chief on the West coast for a while. Sosai would visit from time to time and train with Buck, from the late 1950s on through the 1970s, especially the early 1970s. They had a disagreement and didn't speak for a while, and at that time Buck just had his own school, which is probably when he added a yellow border around the kanku. Eventually he rejoined IKO and Sosai, however, and was awarded a 7th dan by Sosai.

Shihan White was Don Buck's student, and he trained under Sosai when he came and visited here as well.

So, I'm not sure why he has a black dogi. I guess I'll ask him, heh! He'd worn one since at least the mid 1970s though. Sosai never complained about it, far as I know. *shrugs*

Also note: this photo is from the early 1990s. I don't remember if it was 1991 or 1993. Sosai came over to watch a tournament on Hamilton air force base.

OSU

[Montana]

In my system anyway, instructors were allowed to wear black pants and a white top. The head of the dojo could wear an all black gi or any combination of black/white top or pants.

In about 1990 or so at the nagging ofmy students and a discussion with my sensei, I allowed my students to wear black gi if they wanted. To me, the training was more important than the color of their uniform. Students can wear either all black, or all white...no mixing until they get their black belt.

[Dobbersky]

i can understand the colour being uniform either all Black or all white or even mixed but I think everyone SHOULD have the same uniform

Consider this:

Football the Montana Revellers or whatever the Football team is called turn up on the sprts field some are wearing Black pants some are wearing White, some have the Home Team shirt on and some have the Away team shirt on. does this look good?

Same as in the Dojo, someone visiting for the first time sees unorganised array in the uniforms

i think it the rule is that then that's the rule, The Instructor is incharge NOT the students

OSU!!!

[tallgeese]

Yeah, but martial arts really isn't a team event. If the coach is into a uniform, then of course that's the rule. Personally, I don't have much of an issue with mixing and matching, of course, I've mainly been doing BJJ for a few years and it's not uncommon to have several uniform variants on the floor at the same time.

[Liver Punch]

I'll fight any member of those no-good Montana Revellers....

I think matching uniforms are a lot more important in styles that offer hard, military-style discipline. Everyone looking the same helps with discipline, and keeps it looking nice and neat. This might also be quite desirable in a children's class.

For adults and more relaxed arts, I don't think it matters either way. I'm not sure that the art I come from produces less-quality martial now than it did 15 years ago. In that time things have moved from pretty regimented to quite relaxed and non-formal. My guess is that our rate of producing quality guys has an identical percentage now as it did then.

Ultimately, for me anyhow, it's not about impressing people that come to watch a workout or a competition - it's about attracting those few guys who are going to put in hard work, be disciplined, and stick with the art long enough to be good martial artists.

[evergrey]

Solid thinking, Liver Punch!

In my class, in my dojo, which is the much more formal one, everyone pretty much wears the same uniform, though not identical. Some have silkscreened kanji on a cheap gi. Some have it embroidered on a much more expensive Kyokushin-themed dogi. Some of us are poor. Some saved up and got something nice. But it's a white gi with the kanji on it.

The other class is a lot less formal. They don't care too much about rank there, and they don't care too much about uniform either. One guy wears a black dogi that he bought years ago for some sort of demo for another style at his high school. You can still see the spots that used to have silver flame appliques on them, lol!

Plenty of awesome fighters in both classes. There are actually more serious fighters in the "rank and uniform don't really matter" class, now that I think about it.

The formality, the high protocol, and the uniformity all have their merits, for sure.

The heart and spirit of the training matter more though, in my opinion. But we don't tend to approach Kyokushin as sport karate at my dojo.

OSU!

[Dobbersky]

I just thought, this is a thread about Kenpo/Kempo, but its in the karate section, in the UK you'd be hard pushed to find a Kenpo Karate School as opposed to a Kenpo Jujitsu School so shouldn't we move this thread to the Jujitsu section?