Art vs art?!?!?

[Martial_Artist]

Well, no, a kungfu stylist will train kicks differently from a MuayThai fighter because intrinsically their kicks are different and are meant to be used differently. Same goes for punches. A Boxer will train punches much more differently than a practioner of Shotokan. Training is how styles deliver their techniques. Application, usage, and practice are all covered in training. Each style teaches a different method of reaching a goal. So, training isn't separate from style. If you train Kungfu you will fight like kungfu. If you train muaythai you will fight like muaythai.

 

I have already covered everything I'm about to say in every single of my novelic previous posts in this thread, and really, those posts should be read. I apologize if they are lengthy. I am a writer by profession.

 

Anyways, if style meant nothing then there would be no styles. Everyone would have realized eons ago that there was no distinction between my way of fighting and your way of fighting and they would just fight. In reality, there are better ways of doing something and all things are not eqaul. But, BUT, this is the only deciding factor. It cannot be. Because not every practioner of a particular art is going to be that art's best example. And, no art can turn anyone, regardless of lack of inate ability, into a fighting machine. There has to be a level of innate ability, an epitude for things physical, and a capacity for things mental and spiritual.

 

A good fighter using an inefficient art fighting a good fighter using an efficient art will not win. (Barring extrenuating circumstances and random bolts of lightning). If they are of equal skill, i.e. equal innate ability, then the art comes into play.

 

So, Art vs Art is just as important as fighter vs fighter.

 

It really is innate ability + effective technique(i.e. art) + fate = good fighter.

 

If the greatest fighter in the world fights using insufficient or poor tools he won't do that well. No matter how good his talent is, if his training and technique don't supplement it then it won't go anywhere.

 

The best carpenter in the world can only create as well as his tools allow him. Reduce him to his fingernails and he won't be able to produce masterpieces.

 

You must have the proper tools. These tools are not found in every art. If that weren't true then give up your current style and start one you do not like. Why won't you? Because the other style doesn't accomplish what you want. It doesn't do things that you'd like. I.e. it's not the same. Because if it was, then why wouldn't you switch? As long as you train hard and work at it you'll be good, right? Well, you won't do it because there might be someone in a better art training just as hard and getting better tools and we don't want to face someone with better tools and equal skill.

 

There should be great care in picking an art. Because not every art does the same thing.

 

So, in every art vs art argument, we always hear that it boils down to the fighter. True as that may be, it is only partially correct. For a fighter is only as good as his weapons.

 

I have gone over this in great detail in the posts that started this thread. I don't really like repeating myself, nor letting this discussion repeat things that have already been discussed. A thorough review of what has been previously posted can eliminate needless repetition. It save time if everyone already read the arguments presented in the beginning of the thread and add comments, rather than doing a cursory read and making judgements without reading the whole argument. I appreciate the comments.

 

MA.

[Treebranch]

Martial Artist said:

How is training not related to style?

 

I don't know about you, but I can see the value in almost any MA. I don't care if that style spars or uses bad work or just dances around. I take what information they've given me and test it. Tai Chi has some very valuable information in it's forms, but alot of people don't know how to intrepret the information. Some of the so called Soft MA's have some really effective techniques, it's up to you as a fighter to make them work. All the information is out there, it's up to the individual to use it or not use it. That's what makes Martial Arts so fascinating.

[Martial_Artist]

Ah, yes, Treebranch, you've almost hit it right on the head.

 

Every style has weakness and strengths. If fighting is your goal, then limitation to a single style will be your downfall. It is in your best interest to the find the styles that accomplish what you want.

[Treebranch]

Also Martial Artist the word STYLE is very vague. A School or Ryu gets to what we are talking about a little clearer. Some STYLES have many Ryu or Schools within them that teach STAND UP, GRAPPLING, LOCKS, WEAPONS, GROUND FIGHTING ETC. But you are right for the most part. There are STYLES that only concentrate on one area or they barely touch on another. It's up to the Martial Artist to see the weaknesses in the STYLE or STYLES he or she is studying and seek out that information. If it's not available at that particular SCHOOL than it is up to the Martial Artist to go somewhere else to find it. I personally found something that works great for me and it took me a long time to find a very thorough STYLE. Now it's up to me to learn this MA and find it's weaknesses and try my best to fill them. It might be that the answers are already there or I may have to look at another STYLE and adopt a technique or two. Art is about borrowing and improving, no STYLE is perfect.

[Jade_Lotus]

I agree, no style is perfect. This has been argued time and time again. Martial_Artist is a huge advocate for non-style. As am myself. Not all styles will accomplish combat, and not all "styles" are 100% good/effective.

 

Anyways, this has been discussed to exhaustion before. Just my 2 cents.

[Treebranch]

Don't get me wrong if someone is satisfied with one Style, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Also I think that if you jump around from Style to Style and never develop a strong base in at least one of the many Arts studied. It will lead to something that is too make shift. I feel a strong base in one MA as a jumping off point is crucial to really take advantage of mixing or complimenting MA's. Also a beginner I feel will be lost trying to find the best Martial Art to compliment the one he is studied, because he won't know what to look for.

[Fenris-wolf]

Ahh, these threads are so funny, because everyone's opinions are so similar, and yet utterly un-interchangeable.

 

Maybe a different way of putting it is that different MA mean different things to different people. These debates are never going to be concluded, because what you believe comes purely from your perspective.

 

I personally believe that it is always going to be a mix. If a 60kg woman fights a 90kg man she is going to have to have good technique as well as a style that is good for dealing swiftly with mis-matched opponents. If two people of equal size and equal natural ability with equal amounts of training fight it will come down a lot more to style. It seems pretty obvious. But that's just my opinion.

[StoneSkin]

So you say it is the art? Well Heilio Gracie is very profound at Jiu Jitsu a great fighter we can all agree. Has Many Decades of experience.

 

Lennox Lewis Great Boxer has a few decades of expereince. One can agree that he is a great boxer.

 

Both are great in there styles.

 

Most would Agree that Jiu Jitsu is more advanced and complex then boxing. (Boxing is very complex in its own respect)

 

Now who do you think would Win between Lennox and Heilio?

 

You have to take in account for the physical size and natural Agressiveness. How strong they are how much pain tolerance they have.

 

Ill give another example.

 

Joe has practiced Karate for 5 years he is 5'7 150lbs. With aproximently 9% body fat. Hes in Fairly good shape. Extremely good at Kata.

 

BillyBob is a farmer he knows no martial arts. BillyBob worked hard on the farm all his life and when he got in trouble he got a bad whoppin.

 

Billybob is 6'8 weighs 345lbs and has about 11% bodyfat. Hes in great shape really strong and has a high tolerance for pain.

 

Now whos gonna win Billybob or Joe ?

[HulkHogan]

And in this corner weighing in at 128lbs The Master of Martial Arts the founder of Jeet Kune DO one of the fastest and possibly the greatist martial artist of all time Bruce lee. (Bruce lee is stil alive and in his prime we'll pretend)

 

And in this Corner a POLAR BEAR!

 

Good luck Bruce!

[Martial_Artist]

Don't take this thread off topic.