The Application Of A Signature

[sensei8]

For the most, every martial arts style has an organization/federation/association and/or a governing body that issues some type of credence to their student body in order to validate any said rank/title in the form of a certificate.

Martial arts certificates are cherished and revered by the receivers of. Hung up eagerly in either their martial arts school, or at their place of employment, or within their home, or in some other special location of their choice for the acceptance of others who might want to admire and/or to gawk at; like one would with a prized trophy.

Martial arts certificates should be a rare thing, therefore, not cheapened by some impure act, imho.

These platitudes of acceptance come in many sizes, shapes, and colors, along with the text body ordained in some written language. Furthermore, upon these certificates, in various specific location(s), Inkan stamps, of different meaning and importance, lends itself as a proponent of validity and authenticity to any said martial arts certificate(s) once issued by some type of an instructor, and then certified by some organization/federation/association and/or governing body, and in some cases, by only the issuing instructor.

Prominently placed somewhere on these certificates, one would also find signature(s), rather, if there’s only one signature or many, they will be found somewhere, again, adding validity and authenticity to mere paper.

I’m sure that whoever reads this topic/thread would agree with my following statement… Certificates and the like are important and valid and authentic and valuable to that organization/federation/association and/or governing body ONLY and possibly no other entity found on the face of the earth!! Whether other martial arts organization/federation/association and/or governing body will accept any martial arts certificates on their face value, well, that’s only up to that solicited body and not the inquiring body.

That’s my opening introduction.

Within the Shindokan Hombu, we’ve our share of these previously mentioned platitudes to bestow/issue from time to time to those of our student body who’ve truly and honest earned them through their blood, sweat, and tears.

Looking at one of our Kyu/Dan certificates, one would find many, if not all, of the earlier aforementioned items. Our certificates have the Hombu’s watermark blazoned large and in charge in the center location. We’ve five Inkan stamps; one authenticity stamp located near the top right corner, two Hombu stamps located dead center and the other lower left near the signatures, and two personal stamps of our Soke and Dai-Soke located in the left lower side adjacent to the text body. Then we’ve our text body, right to left, in Japanese kanji. Our certificates are seventeen inches by eleven inches, similar to the size one would find from a university.

It’s those ominous signature(s) that are the reason for this topic/thread.

Our Legal Team’s Lead Counsel poised a question to Greg and me just the other night during our weekly conference call. ..”Why do Soke’s and Dai-Soke’s names, in the form of signatures, still remain on our certificates, after all, and with much respect, they’re both dead?”

“Respect and honor!” chimed Greg and I at nearly the same time.

“Why don’t we change the signature portion to accurately reflect the Hombu’s current leadership and such?” Hugh asked matter-of-factly.

“Listen, Soke founded Shindokan, and our Dai-Soke taught Shindokan to the majority of the student body. Their signatures are not a bargaining chip for me to even consider whenever you speak about removing their names from any vitally important document. Not me, not today, and not tomorrow.” Greg said with a firm tone.

“Do you feel the same way Bob?” asked Hugh.

“You darn skippy I do! Their signatures are everything to me. I can’t even possibly imagine a good valid reason for me to erase their signatures, and the reason(s) would have to be enormous for me to agree with. Not only no, but, hell no!” I compassionately replied.

“Whose signature(s) did you have in mind Hugh? And please don’t say Bob and me.” Greg reservedly asked.

“That’s exactly whose signatures I have in mind. If I may, you’re both at the top of the Executive Team as Kaicho and Kancho; that’s the current leadership of the Hombu, and this fact is supported by the By-Laws.” Hugh answered quite pointedly.

“By the way, Kaicho and Kancho aren’t either of you. These are titles that the two of you currently occupy, quite exceptionally, if I might say. If necessary, two other signatures could be added in order to eliminate any impropriator. However, to muck up Hombu certificates with a lot of signatures serves no concrete purposes. Furthermore, if my memory serves me, and according to our Hombu scrolls, you, Bob, were in the process of having your name added to Hombu certificates for the simple reason that you had just been named the Hombu’s new Kaicho by Soke and Dai-Soke, but that wasn’t fulfilled due to the untimely death of Soke, and then Dai-Soke’s stroke and then shortly thereafter, his death” Hugh added.

The jury is out for now on this one. This matter isn’t being sought through any formal channels within the Hombu in any shape, way, and/or form. This is simply, a passing conversation between Hugh, Greg, and I. Still, questions remain by a gnawing wonderment …Is Hugh right/wrong? Are Greg and I right/wrong?

I believe that the Legal Team has the Hombu’s interest and needs in mind, and that what they feel is for the betterment of our student body past, present, and future. Greg and I have never once felt a need to address, change, and/or touch what Soke and Dai-Soke has created, and in that, by even removing their names from anything, is to me, like spitting in their faces. It starts with removing their names from the certificates, what then? Before one knows it, their names are removed from everything, and then there forgotten. We can remove their names from every written piece of paper, but they’ll always be in my heart…forever! How does, with what the Legal Team is suggesting, serve to honor Soke and Dai-Soke?

Imagine, if only for a moment, if your organization/federation/association and/or governing body were to remove the name(s) of the founder/co-founder of your beloved style of the martial arts…how’ would you feel?

Possibly, this might have already happened in your organization/federation/association and/or governing body.

I bring this to you for you to consider. I’ve asked many questions here, and I’ve bold typed them, with the hope that together, you, on the outside of the Hombu circle, can provide Greg and I with some sensibility and solid answers. Please, and thank you!!

I look forward to your replies and/or questions and/or concerns.

[JusticeZero]

If the people are no longer physically able to sign certificates, I do not feel it is honest to include their signatures.

I can understand wanting to retain something on the certificate to indicate presumed approval and lineage, but that thing should not be a signature. A photograph perhaps, and some sort of memorial line of text or statement of deference would work however.

I have always been uneasy about signatures made by someone who did not actually operate the pen or equivalent on that specific document.

[sensei8]

After some consideration and all, I suppose Hugh has some valid points. After all, Soke and Dai-Soke haven't been present at any Hombu testing cycle since 2010. The Hombu has supervised 2-3 annual testing cycles, and in that, the Hombu's awarded said certificates that still have Soke and Dai-Soke signatures only.

What the Hombu's done for legitimacy's sake has had Kaicho, Kancho, Technical Qualifications Director, and the Hombu's Executive Secretary sign the Hombu's Official Testing Cycle Results, and then placed it inside of that students file, along with a copy of said certificate(s) along with any other documentations.

I don't think that's enough. I'll talk more with Greg tomorrow to find out if we need to make this an official inquire before we present it to the many Department Directors in our weekly conference call.

[DWx]

If the people are no longer physically able to sign certificates, I do not feel it is honest to include their signatures.

I can understand wanting to retain something on the certificate to indicate presumed approval and lineage, but that thing should not be a signature. A photograph perhaps, and some sort of memorial line of text or statement of deference would work however.

I have always been uneasy about signatures made by someone who did not actually operate the pen or equivalent on that specific document.

I have to agree with Justice. Gen. Choi's name used to be on all ITF TKD dan certificates but after his death this then changed to whoever was president and now their signature is the one validating the dan.

[bushido_man96]

If the people are no longer physically able to sign certificates, I do not feel it is honest to include their signatures.

I can understand wanting to retain something on the certificate to indicate presumed approval and lineage, but that thing should not be a signature. A photograph perhaps, and some sort of memorial line of text or statement of deference would work however.

I have always been uneasy about signatures made by someone who did not actually operate the pen or equivalent on that specific document.

I have to agree with Justice. Gen. Choi's name used to be on all ITF TKD dan certificates but after his death this then changed to whoever was president and now their signature is the one validating the dan.

I think both make valid points here. How can one no longer among us sign a certificate and grant rank?

Bob, I know exactly where you are coming from here, and your loyalty to the Soke and Dai-Soke is unmatched anywhere; therefore, I understand why you have taken the stand you have. I admire you for your loyalty.

What you might consider doing is leaving Soke's name on the cert, and list him as such: founder. List Dai-Soke accordingly. That way, the names stay on the certs. However, it does sound to me that your name and Greg's names should likely fall on the cert somewhere, as you are the ones that are basically in charge of granting rank on others in Shindokan. I think this arrangement would suit everyone's needs within Shindokan, and would respectfully retain Soke and Dai-Soke's names on the certificates.

[RJCKarate]

Our certificates are directly issued from our Honbu in Okinawa. They have three forms of signatures on them: an actual signature of our current head of style (son of the founder), an inkan that reads 'Soke' which is currently used, and was used by his father, and a personal inkan used by the signatory.

However, something you could consider is having a 'for' or 'on behalf of' on the certificate. Since you obviously feel a need to have the founders signatures on the certificate-but they can't actually physically award the grade-issue it on their behalf. After all you wouldn't hold your grade, or your ability to grade someone if they didn't think they could trust you to do so.

So on the certificate you might have...

Kaicho Bob on behalf of Soke

Hope this gives you some more ideas!

[MasterPain]

Our certificates are directly issued from our Honbu in Okinawa. They have three forms of signatures on them: an actual signature of our current head of style (son of the founder), an inkan that reads 'Soke' which is currently used, and was used by his father, and a personal inkan used by the signatory.

However, something you could consider is having a 'for' or 'on behalf of' on the certificate. Since you obviously feel a need to have the founders signatures on the certificate-but they can't actually physically award the grade-issue it on their behalf. After all you wouldn't hold your grade, or your ability to grade someone if they didn't think they could trust you to do so.

So on the certificate you might have...

Kaicho Bob on behalf of Soke

Hope this gives you some more ideas!

This seems very appropriate.

[sensei8]

Great advice from everyone here. Both, Greg and I appreciate them so much. I've emailed all of your suggestions to each of the Department heads for their consideration.

All of the Department heads are still chewing on this situation. However, this is now an official amendment to both the certificates as well as to our By-Laws. We've tabled it to May 31st to come up with the most advantages alternative.

[shadowspawn]

This is a very interesting topic as this same issue is being brought up today in my school. My sensei still bows to his late sensei even now long after his death. His sensei died young at the age of 28 I believe as a sandan during a time where we worked on a 5 day system. Since then, he has surpassed his sensei in terms of rank but even to this day teaches his karate as "Tokunaga's version". That said, I personally believe that it would be best to use your own signature for those who were trained specifically under you and reserve your founder's signatures for those who had the honor of training under him. As has already been stated, it doesn't make much sense for someone who has passed to be the one to consent to someone who has achieved shodan. But at the same time, I wouldn't think it fair to remove their names from the certificate altogether if you feel you couldn't have gotten to that point without their assistance. I suppose it really depends on what the certificate means to you. If it is a means of authentication as you say, I would think it best for those alive today to certify people when they are of rank. If you think it more of a document that represents your school and is a physical manifestation of its genealogy, I would maintain your founder's signature.

TL;DR?

If you think it more of a certificate of authenticity and acceptance rather than a genealogical document representative of your school's roots and its successor generations of karate-ka, I would think it makes more sense to impose your own signatures on said certificates.

[sensei8]

Any Shindokan karateka testing for Godan-Hachidan must go to the Hombu no matter their Sensei. In that, until their deaths, Soke AND Dai-Soke were always in attendance at the annual testing cycle and AT the table. Therefore, those had to pass the muster in front of them both!!

Shindokan dojo's are required to submit their testing results from 6th kyu to Yondan to the Hombu, fail or pass, and then, the different departments at the Hombu would sign off before submitting final approval for all testing candidates who've passed to Soke AND Dai-Soke. Those who didn't pass, their paperwork would be inserted into the master file held at the Hombu. This was to grant or deny candidate applications. Yes, the Hombu had to give permission for any and all testing candidates, even if the testing cycle was conducted at any Shindokan dojo, and not at the Hombu. Then Soke and Dai-Soke would approve them, and then the Administrative Department would bring their signature Inkans and certificates to Soke and Dai-Soke. These Inkans are kept in lock and key, and only 3 people have access to these Inkans: Hugh, our Legal Lead Counsel, Greg, and I, and all three have to sign them out/in with the Hombu Executive Secretary.

Who's affixing Soke and Dai-Soke Inkans since their death? The Hombu!! When I say the Hombu, I mean Greg and I are.