someone give me a site that shows how to do the iron palm

[LeaF]

u don't need a black belt to be a martial artist

 

Dude I hate to say it but you are wrong! YOu are not a martial artist unless you at least have a shodan. If you study karate and you have a kyu belt then you are a karate-ka(basicly means someone who trains in karate), not too sure what the names used for the other styles are...

a belts a belt. it just tell people what rank u are in.

 

again I disagree. I belt signalifies much more then simply what rank you are. A black belt represents the ideals you stand for, it shows dedication, hard work, worthy of respect. I white belt has not yet earned the respect of people, and does not deserve to be called a martial artist YET. Of coarse all my statements only apply to genuine dojos, not Mcdojos who give blackbelts away for nothing....

 

perhaps that will help clear things up

[risingdragon]

i disagree with u a martial artist doesn't need a belt to be one. i agree what u said with the belts it does show how hard u work and the dedication u put into it. but if your praticing it your truly a martial artist. the belt will never determine if you are or not. that something u have to understand even if your a white belt or not.

[Martial_Artist]

http://www.karateforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3081

 

http://www.karateforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3168

 

Are you telling me I'm not a martial artist? I must not be a martial artist, my martial art has no black belt. I must change my nick to something else, I guess I'm not a martial artist afterall.

 

Having a blackbelt does not make you a martial artist.(see first link above) Having a blackbelt means you have memorized a series of techniques and patterns for your particular style.

 

I have no blackbelt. Yet, I am a martial artist in the purest sense. You cannot limit what a martial artist is by defining it to a style's ranking system. Not all styles are equal. The blackbelt, is not a defining quality of a martial artist. There are countless "blackbelts" who are furthest from a martial artist.

 

I am afraid, you are wrong. You have been mislead, or misinformed. Whether or not I possess a blackbelt doesn't decide whether or not I am a martial artist.

 

The lowly white belt, although lacking in skill and knowledge, is no less a martial artist than the blackbelt. What defines a martial artist is the purpose and reasoning behind the study of the student. (see second link above)

 

A white belt who enters the study of martial arts is a martial artist. He may be a novice martial artist, but nonetheless is a martial artist.

 

Rank and knowledge have no bearing on whether you are a martial artist or not. You are a martial artist in your intent behind studying the martial arts.

 

A blackbelt does nothing more than signify your rank and level of knowledge for your style. Having a blackbelt, even from a

genuine

dojo is not a guarantee that you are a martial artist, or that you can even fight.

 

A person wearing blackbelt is not automatically a martial artist nor a good fighter.

 

Certainly, the white belt has not earned the respect of others yet, but what does this have to do with being a martial artist? The white belt can still be a martial artist, even in his lowly novice state. His heart can be a martial artist, his intent can be a martial artist, even if his skill isn't yet high, he is still a martial artist.

 

Respect is not blatantly given to those of a colored belt. Whether or not you get respect as a blackbelt is wholly dependent on whether or not you earn that respect from others.

 

If you have a blackbelt and I meet you, you will only get as much respect as you earn from me at that moment. Your blackbelt means nothing to me. Who you are beneath that blackbelt does.

 

I have no blackbelt. I AM a martial artist. You cannot tell me I am not, based solely on that I do not have a "blackbelt".

 

The ideals of blackbelt are the ideals that every student follows. Ideals are not handed out by rank, they are embraced by intent and heart.

 

A blackbelt is a good thing, but only if you've put the heart into it it deserves. Attaining a blackbelt is good goal to attain, but it is NOT the defining parameter of a martial artist.

 

I suggest you read the thread ,"The Martial Arts"under Combative Martial Arts.

 

Of course, all my statements only apply to genuine martial artists...

 

Perhaps this will help clear things up.

[risingdragon]

thanks for sharing this will help user to see what i mean.

[LeaF]

Martial artist, you made some very good points but I still must partially object.....

Are you telling me I'm not a martial artist? I must not be a martial artist, my martial art has no black belt. I must change my nick to something else, I guess I'm not a martial artist afterall.

 

what style do you study? Anyways beyond that I can only speek based on the knowledge I posses. I do not know how every system works or the ranks of every style. You situation is unique.

 

 

I came across this style of combative MA that five martial artists created... a street-wise, highly effective combat system which derived its name from the first letters of the styles that comprised it

 

I do not see how this supports your arguement. Just because these dudes do know how to fight does not make them martial artists, in my opinion. You or anyone else can call themself a martial artist, just like anyone can call themself a bus driver, are you a bus driver, no unless you drive a bus. It takes more than just being able to fight too be a martial artist. I will elaborate later....

 

 

You cannot limit what a martial artist is by defining it to a style's ranking system. Not all styles are equal. The blackbelt, is not a defining quality of a martial artist. There are countless "blackbelts" who are furthest from a martial artist.

 

In my opinion these people do not deserve to be black belts. You cannot be a true blackbelt without being a martial artist. The two go hand in hand. Many people have blackbelts and do not deserve them, and many people also called themselves martial artists and do not deserve to hold that title. Not all styles are created equal, I agree, but all "genuine" styles do have a disive point within them. This point in karate is the blackbelt. IT is at this point in time when a boy becomes a man. A point that many concider a great accomplish, although it is just a begining. This is what people will struggle, sweat, bleed, and cry to get too. THis is the point where someone has earned the right to be called a martial artist. It is not always a blackbelt, as you have pointed out, styles do differ.

The lowly white belt, although lacking in skill and knowledge, is no less a martial artist than the blackbelt. What defines a martial artist is the purpose and reasoning behind the study of the student. (see second link above)

 

I disagree with you here, surprised I do not define a martial artist by his or her purpose and reasoning for studing the martial arts. Anybody may want to study the martial arts for the right reasons. Now for instance this one guy thinks it would be great to study the martial arts and wants to do it for all the right reasons. But for one reason or another he is unable to do any training. Is he a martial artist even though he has absolutly no training, I think not. Do you see what your definition lacks. you have already stated what you think of my definition, and I am not trying to change your mind, I am merely stating why a feel that way.

A blackbelt does nothing more than signify your rank and level of knowledge for your style. Having a blackbelt, even from a genuine

 

dojo is not a guarantee that you are a martial artist, or that you can even fight.

 

Who said a martial artist had to know how to fight, I sure didn't... Are you saying that the great zen monks and scholars of ancient asia were not martial artists because not all of them were great fighters. Being a martial artist is as much a mental thing (IF not more so) as a physical thing. I believe it is a common misconception that martial artists must be great fighters.

 

 

Respect is not blatantly given to those of a colored belt. Whether or not you get respect as a blackbelt is wholly dependent on whether or not you earn that respect from others.

 

People who have worked hard, demonstrated extreme dedication, demonstrate and pratice the healthy ideals to earn their blackbelt are people that have earned my respect. I know what it takes to earn a blackbelt, many of my friends have gone down that road and I hope to follow soon. Once you know what it takes and what they have been through one cannot help but hold a high amount of respect for them, true blackbelts must be earned and are not given away. To show this respect they are always, in and out of the dojo addressed as Mr. Soandso, and Ms. Soandso.

The ideals of blackbelt are the ideals that every student follows. Ideals are not handed out by rank, they are embraced by intent and heart.

 

This I almost agree with, almost. It is true that a white belt can have the exact same ideals and beliefs a blackbelt has, but once you reach the rank of bb you are expected to follow certain ideals, and I believe these are unconsious things that you will learn and understand through training. This is why one would hope that by the time someone reaches bb there is a certain standard and a number of shared ideals between bb that cannot nessarly be said for white belts...

A blackbelt is a good thing, but only if you've put the heart into it it deserves

 

A person whos heart is not in the right place simply does not deserve a blackbelt, and will never earn a bb if in a good dojo.

Of course, all my statements only apply to genuine martial artists...

 

Perhaps this will help clear things up.

 

Your sarcasm is noted altough I am not trying to make enemies. It is evident that we have a very different ideas of what a martial artist is and that is fine I am not trying to change your mind just trying to explain why I feel the way I do. I will give you the choice to continue this arguement, debate, discussion what ever you want to call it or we can just end it and go on believing what ever we like, the choice is yours

thanks for sharing this will help user to see what i mean.

 

the names LeaF

[Martial_Artist]

risingdragon, actually I wasn't defending your position...

Martial artist, you made some very good points but I still must partially object.....

 

I came across this style of combative MA that five martial artists created... a street-wise, highly effective combat system which derived its name from the first letters of the styles that comprised it

 

Actually, I wasn't referring to KickChick's post under that thread, I was referring to my own. Near the bottom.

You cannot limit what a martial artist is by defining it to a style's ranking system. Not all styles are equal. The blackbelt, is not a defining quality of a martial artist. There are countless "blackbelts" who are furthest from a martial artist.

 

In my opinion these people do not deserve to be black belts. You cannot be a true blackbelt without being a martial artist. The two go hand in hand. Many people have blackbelts and do not deserve them, and many people also called themselves martial artists and do not deserve to hold that title. Not all styles are created equal, I agree, but all "genuine" styles do have a disive point within them. This point in karate is the blackbelt. IT is at this point in time when a boy becomes a man. A point that many concider a great accomplish, although it is just a begining. This is what people will struggle, sweat, bleed, and cry to get too. THis is the point where someone has earned the right to be called a martial artist. It is not always a blackbelt, as you have pointed out, styles do differ.

 

Quite so, each martial art does has a decisive point in which boy passes to man. But from the very begining each is a martial artist.

The lowly white belt, although lacking in skill and knowledge, is no less a martial artist than the blackbelt. What defines a martial artist is the purpose and reasoning behind the study of the student. (see second link above)

 

I disagree with you here, surprised I do not define a martial artist by his or her purpose and reasoning for studing the martial arts. Anybody may want to study the martial arts for the right reasons. Now for instance this one guy thinks it would be great to study the martial arts and wants to do it for all the right reasons. But for one reason or another he is unable to do any training. Is he a martial artist even though he has absolutly no training, I think not. Do you see what your definition lacks. you have already stated what you think of my definition, and I am not trying to change your mind, I am merely stating why a feel that way.

 

You misread my statement, it was the intent behind the training, the studying. Not the intent to train or to study. Two distinct concepts. Someone who wants to be a martial artist must train to be a martial artist. If I begin my training in a martial art, starting as lowly white belt and I am training for all the right reasons then I am a martial artist. If I want to be a martial artist and do nothing to acheive that goal, then I am not a martial artist. I don't think my definition lacked anything. It was clear in its original delivery.

 

 

 

A blackbelt does nothing more than signify your rank and level of knowledge for your style. Having a blackbelt, even from a genuine

 

dojo is not a guarantee that you are a martial artist, or that you can even fight.

 

Who said a martial artist had to know how to fight, I sure didn't... Are you saying that the great zen monks and scholars of ancient asia were not martial artists because not all of them were great fighters. Being a martial artist is as much a mental thing (IF not more so) as a physical thing. I believe it is a common misconception that martial artists must be great fighters.

 

The great zen monks were just that, great zen monks. Being a martial artist is as much the physical as the mental. It is in possessing a philosophy about the combative methods of personal expression. We seek for enlightenment through the punch, the kick, the martial application of the philosophy we endear. To be a martial artist, you must be able to fight as well as reason. Otherwise you are nothing more than a philosopher. You cannot be a martial artist without the martial.

 

 

Respect is not blatantly given to those of a colored belt. Whether or not you get respect as a blackbelt is wholly dependent on whether or not you earn that respect from others.

 

People who have worked hard, demonstrated extreme dedication, demonstrate and pratice the healthy ideals to earn their blackbelt are people that have earned my respect. I know what it takes to earn a blackbelt, many of my friends have gone down that road and I hope to follow soon. Once you know what it takes and what they have been through one cannot help but hold a high amount of respect for them, true blackbelts must be earned and are not given away. To show this respect they are always, in and out of the dojo addressed as Mr. Soandso, and Ms. Soandso.

 

You see, it has been my experience that not all blackbelts must be given respect. The wearing of the belt means nothing to me and demands no such respect. I give respect to those worthy of it, not based on the color of the belt wrapped around their hip. Regardless of the dojo they come from. I hold no preconceptions about that person and afford him no other respect than the courtesy I would expect in return.

The ideals of blackbelt are the ideals that every student follows. Ideals are not handed out by rank, they are embraced by intent and heart.

 

This I almost agree with, almost. It is true that a white belt can have the exact same ideals and beliefs a blackbelt has, but once you reach the rank of bb you are expected to follow certain ideals, and I believe these are unconsious things that you will learn and understand through training. This is why one would hope that by the time someone reaches bb there is a certain standard and a number of shared ideals between bb that cannot nessarly be said for white belts...

 

Even white belts are expected to follow the same ideals as black belts. Those ideals might not be as conditioned and as reflexive as someone who has lived for longer, but they are still expected to act no different. True, blackbelts act differently than whitebelts, but this has more to do with maturity in their art than it does with their ideals.

A blackbelt is a good thing, but only if you've put the heart into it it deserves

 

A person whos heart is not in the right place simply does not deserve a blackbelt, and will never earn a bb if in a good dojo.

 

You know, our concepts of what define what a blackbelt should be are not different. I completely agree that a person who wears the blackbelt should be everything you said he should be.

 

Our difference lies in that I do not define a martial artist by the belt or rank held he holds. I do believe that blackbelts should be great martial artists. However, the lowly white belt, or red belt, or novice who studies the martial arts with real intent is a martial artist and will forever be so long as he holds true to his goal.

 

This is a martial artist. An artist of the combative ways. A philosopher of war. A man who seeks enlightenment or improvement through combat. That is why there is the punch, the kick, the movement that kills and the movement that restrains. To take the fight out of the martial artist is to remove the martial and create a philosopher equal with Plato and Socrates. The path for this begins with novice and never ends. Once you place your foot on that path, and continue onward, you are always a martial artist. You are not martial artist just when you reach the end, because there is no end.

Of course, all my statements only apply to genuine martial artists...

 

Perhaps this will help clear things up.

 

Your sarcasm is noted altough I am not trying to make enemies. It is evident that we have a very different ideas of what a martial artist is and that is fine I am not trying to change your mind just trying to explain why I feel the way I do. I will give you the choice to continue this arguement, debate, discussion what ever you want to call it or we can just end it and go on believing what ever we like, the choice is yours

 

My sarcasm is a result of reciprocation. I give what is given.

 

I won't force my belief on you, but I will defend mine. I do this with the hopes of helping my fellow martial artists further their martial development.