Wado watered down version of shoto ?

[tallgeese]

Being the non-traditionalist here, one might expect me to jump on board with the OP; however, I'd have to strongly disagree. Even as a guy who is all about evolution of training practices, I'd be remiss to say anything disrespectful about Wado, or any other trad art. There's something to be said for practicing a given style for the years it takes to be good at anything.

Art lineages aside, which others more well informed than I on the subject can speak to, let's look at a couple of other factors out of the initial post.

First up, you really need to look at goals and means to get there and make them match. Any legit art will move you toward combative training; however, some have different methods and paths that may or may not be to your liking. It's best to make sure that these match. I've come to not like kata as a training method. Fine. Others do. Also fine. What I shouldn't do is go to a kata based training school to work out in. If you like certain aspects of an art, great and not those from another then train in the one that makes the most sense to the way you learn.

It does not mean that one is inferior, it's just designed differently. You also bring up MMA. I love MMA. However, if you want to be good at it, go to an MMA gym. It's the quickest way to learn MMA.

It's about matching what you want out of the art to the art you're studying. There are certain arts that are better at certain things. For instance, if you really wanted to learn to fight with a stick there are a couple of options. Some Okinawan systems use the hanbo, or short stick. There are really good striking applications and joint position possibilities out of that system. But it's only part of the system. Or, you could go train in escrima of one form or another. Arts devoted entirely to stick work. Which do you think would make you happier?

The same applies to unarmed arts as well. You have to start with a realitic assessment of what you want and an in depth look at each to make this match. There's no lesser or greater, just how each fits to what you're looking to do with it. sojobo talks about the budo of his art. It's a great reason to study it. It's never really fascinated me beyond an intellectual level so maybe that's not an art for me. Mine's not for him. We each get to where we want to go, and learn some combat skill along the way. Neither art is invalid.

Just my 2 cents.

[unknownstyle]

IMHO both are watered down versions of Okinawan karate. Not that they do not have their strong points but I believe them to be easier to learn and more appealing to the masses. They are pretty to the untrained eye where Okinawan styles tend not to be. They don't focus so much on the physical and brutal training methods. And they seem more competition oriented. Like I said this is my opinion no disrespect to anyone as I love all karate, but when it comes down to what is most effective, Okinawan karate is always on the top of my list.

[sojobo]

IMHO both are watered down versions of Okinawan karate. Not that they do not have their strong points but I believe them to be easier to learn and more appealing to the masses. They are pretty to the untrained eye where Okinawan styles tend not to be. They don't focus so much on the physical and brutal training methods. And they seem more competition oriented. Like I said this is my opinion no disrespect to anyone as I love all karate, but when it comes down to what is most effective, Okinawan karate is always on the top of my list.

Watered down infers a weaker version of something. I don't think they are watered down - I think they are something entirely different.

I can’t speak for Shoto folk, but Wado - on a surface level - could be perceived as easy to learn, however it is very hard to master (trust me, I have being trying my best to do so for over a quarter of a century).

The devil really is in the detail.

I'd also say that out of all of the major styles - Wado is probably the least aesthetically pleasing. It is however very functional.

However - all that said, Wado has become a victim of its own success in many ways and the end result is more bad schools than good imo.

Sojobo

[Dobbersky]

IMHO both are watered down versions of Okinawan karate. Not that they do not have their strong points but I believe them to be easier to learn and more appealing to the masses. They are pretty to the untrained eye where Okinawan styles tend not to be. They don't focus so much on the physical and brutal training methods. And they seem more competition oriented. Like I said this is my opinion no disrespect to anyone as I love all karate, but when it comes down to what is most effective, Okinawan karate is always on the top of my list.

Watered down infers a weaker version of something. I don't think they are watered down - I think they are something entirely different.

I can’t speak for Shoto folk, but Wado - on a surface level - could be perceived as easy to learn, however it is very hard to master (trust me, I have being trying my best to do so for over a quarter of a century).

The devil really is in the detail.

I'd also say that out of all of the major styles - Wado is probably the least aesthetically pleasing. It is however very functional.

However - all that said, Wado has become a victim of its own success in many ways and the end result is more bad schools than good imo.

Sojobo

I think Wado is Excellent, my second love, Ashihara Karate being my first, there is so much that it, Wado Ryu, has, but one has to dedicate oneself to the style to really appreciated.

[Ueshirokarate]

IMHO, none of the major styles suck. What sucks are some of the schools/teachers. Let's face it, it is all in the training and trainee and this varies by location. I think it is insulting to call any style a watered down version of another. I mean seriously, look at this style's lineage and influences: It has a higher level of Okinawan Masters than most Okinawan styles on Okinawa.

http://americanwadoacademy.com/id2.html

I have watched many, many Wado Ryu videos to get insights into my style, as it was heavily influenced by Choki Motubu (one of Nagamine's teachers and a hell of street figher) plus Kenwa Mabuni and Gichin Funikoshi (both direct students of Anko Itosu, who is pretty much the grandfather of all Okinawan Shorin Ryu styles). I started my training in the hombu dojo of a system started by the Chief Instructor of Master Nagamine's first dojo on Okinawa. The only way you can't get any more Okinawan than my dojo, is to go to Okinawa to train. Yet, I still have referred to Wado videos purely because I knew the style's lineage.