Transition from Shaolin to Shotokan

[scohen.mma]

Ueshirokarate, Shorin-Ryu lacks Japanese mainland influence because its really not Japanese at all. its Okinawan. I dont know why, but my Sensei's tell us all that Shorin-Ryu was never Japanese, it was always Okinawan.

[Ueshirokarate]

Ueshirokarate, Shorin-Ryu lacks Japanese mainland influence because its really not Japanese at all. its Okinawan. I dont know why, but my Sensei's tell us all that Shorin-Ryu was never Japanese, it was always Okinawan.

I am well aware of where Shorin Ryu comes from. I suggest that you do some research on the men I mention before going further on this thread. More importantly, it would be ridiculous to think that there was no Japanese influence on the development of karate, even when Okinawa was a sovereign nation pre-Meiji Restoration. Heck, it is well known that Anko Itosu went to Japan to study at one of the premiere iaido schools of the day. Are you going to tell us that he never had any Japanese Ju Jitsu lessons?

[Wastelander]

Ueshirokarate, Shorin-Ryu lacks Japanese mainland influence because its really not Japanese at all. its Okinawan. I dont know why, but my Sensei's tell us all that Shorin-Ryu was never Japanese, it was always Okinawan.

I am well aware of where Shorin Ryu comes from. I suggest that you do some research on the men I mention before going further on this thread. More importantly, it would be ridiculous to think that there was no Japanese influence on the development of karate, even when Okinawa was a sovereign nation pre-Meiji Restoration. Heck, it is well known that Anko Itosu went to Japan to study at one of the premiere iaido schools of the day. Are you going to tell us that he never had any Japanese Ju Jitsu lessons?

Now, now, Ueshirokarate--we don't want to discourage newer students from participating in conversations about karate, and scohen.mma is still an orange belt, I believe . He is relating what his Sensei said, and it isn't technically incorrect, either. Shorin-Ryu practitioners of the past DID incorporate training from Japan, but that still does not make Shorin-Ryu Japanese any more than learning Shogi and applying concepts from it to chess makes chess Japanese (forgive me, because I am bad at analogies and that's the best one I could think of ). I think that all he meant was that Shorin-Ryu, for the most part, remained based in Okinawa and continued to be practiced in the manner in which it had been taught in the past and was not transplanted from Okinawa to Japan and modified to suit the Japanese like Shotokan was over time.

[Ueshirokarate]

Now, now, Ueshirokarate--we don't want to discourage newer students from participating in conversations about karate, and scohen.mma is still an orange belt, I believe . He is relating what his Sensei said, and it isn't technically incorrect, either. Shorin-Ryu practitioners of the past DID incorporate training from Japan, but that still does not make Shorin-Ryu Japanese any more than learning Shogi and applying concepts from it to chess makes chess Japanese (forgive me, because I am bad at analogies and that's the best one I could think of ). I think that all he meant was that Shorin-Ryu, for the most part, remained based in Okinawa and continued to be practiced in the manner in which it had been taught in the past and was not transplanted from Okinawa to Japan and modified to suit the Japanese like Shotokan was over time.

Heck, I don't want to discourage discussion at all. However, I do want a new student or a long term veteran know exactly what they are talking about. Okinawa was a "sovereign" nation for centuries. That said, it was heavily controlled by both Japan and China. Many Okinawans traveled back and forth to both countries (many of whom went just to study martial arts). While there is a distinct difference between Japanese Karate and Okinawan Karate, there is just as much differences between styles on Okinawa. Furthermore, when we think of Japanese flavor of karate, we are typically thinking of either Shotokan or Kyokushin. However, these styles are both very different from one another, as is Wado from the two and yet it is another mainland Japanese style heavily influenced by two very large names in "Okinawan" karate and the founder of Shotokan who was a direct student of Anko Itosu and from Okinawa himself.

The branches of Shorin-ryu are probably the closest existing to what Anko Itosu and the other Shuri-castle staff practiced day in and day out. However, they were not martial artists in isolation from Japanese or Chinese influence.

[scohen.mma]

Wastelander, thankyou very much. its my fault that i didnt specify what i was talking about, although i wasnt even sure how to really specify it. i was going based off of some of the tihngs that i could remember my Sensei saying during class, so i apologise to Ueshirokarate.

and yes, i am still just an orange belt at 16 years old

[Ueshirokarate]

Wastelander, thankyou very much. its my fault that i didnt specify what i was talking about, although i wasnt even sure how to really specify it. i was going based off of some of the tihngs that i could remember my Sensei saying during class, so i apologise to Ueshirokarate.

and yes, i am still just an orange belt at 16 years old

I encourage you to pick up the book "Shotokan Secret". Ignore the obvious pro-Shotokan/anti-Kyan bias. All you need to disprove his theory regarding Kyan "changing" our katas, is to look at Shito-ryu's forms. That said, the book gives a good background in the history of karate and some food for thought regarding kata techniques. No need to apologize by the way.

[jaypo]

Shroin Ryu actually translates to "Shaolin Way". It's an Okinawan form that was influenced by Shaolin Kung Fu, from what I've read. I am a 5th Kyu in Shotokan, and I'm currently studying and training in Shorin Ryu. The 2 are very similar (actually, Shotokan was Gichin Funakashi's blend of Shorin- and Shorei Ryu). But I've noticed that in Shorin Ryu, there are more "circular" and flowing movements. Shotokan is mostly all linear and powerful. In Shorin Ryu, there are a lot of hook blocks and taller stances. I'll be testing for 5th Kyu in Shorin Ryu next week.

[Zaine]

Shroin Ryu actually translates to "Shaolin Way". It's an Okinawan form that was influenced by Shaolin Kung Fu, from what I've read. I am a 5th Kyu in Shotokan, and I'm currently studying and training in Shorin Ryu. The 2 are very similar (actually, Shotokan was Gichin Funakashi's blend of Shorin- and Shorei Ryu). But I've noticed that in Shorin Ryu, there are more "circular" and flowing movements. Shotokan is mostly all linear and powerful. In Shorin Ryu, there are a lot of hook blocks and taller stances. I'll be testing for 5th Kyu in Shorin Ryu next week.

I don't think it was a form that influenced the start of Shorin Ryu, I believe it was a Japanese solider who was in China. However, it's been awhile since I've read the books for Shorin Ryu, being that I haven't been in a formal class in a while. Shorin Ryu doesn't have forms and movements that flow and are circular until you're testing for shodan and above, usually those are reserved for higher ranks, after they have gone through with the more linear training. No doubt that your teacher just has a different way of teaching, he/she might focus more on that.

What forms do you know as a 5th kyu and, probably more importantly, which branch of Shorin Ryu are you studying?

[Ueshirokarate]

Shroin Ryu actually translates to "Shaolin Way". It's an Okinawan form that was influenced by Shaolin Kung Fu, from what I've read. I am a 5th Kyu in Shotokan, and I'm currently studying and training in Shorin Ryu. The 2 are very similar (actually, Shotokan was Gichin Funakashi's blend of Shorin- and Shorei Ryu). But I've noticed that in Shorin Ryu, there are more "circular" and flowing movements. Shotokan is mostly all linear and powerful. In Shorin Ryu, there are a lot of hook blocks and taller stances. I'll be testing for 5th Kyu in Shorin Ryu next week.

Shotokan, Shorin Ryu, Shito Ryu all trace their lineages back to Anko Itosu. Of these three, only Shotokan has changed due modern mainland Japanese influence.

[Zaine]

Shotokan, Shorin Ryu, Shito Ryu all trace their lineages back to Anko Itosu. Of these three, only Shotokan has changed due modern mainland Japanese influence.

That's one of the names I was forgetting but I'm thinking 2 more up the lineage. I remember a man training under Kusanku who taught Matsumura who taught Itosu. Driving me crazy that I can't remember.