Agressive OR Passive!?

[sensei8]

Can one be predominately aggressive OR passive as a fighter ONLY?

Imho...no! Our opponent(s) are different and will present us with many different defending/attacking methodologies, therefore, we must present our opponent(s) with kind likeness, and in that, we must present them with offset tones continuously.

When we fight, it should be like a great book. a solid beginning, middle, and end. Filled with mystery and intrigue that keeps one guessing, wondering, and wanting.

Bruce Lee isn't the inventor/creator of "broken rhythm", however, Bruce brought broken rhythm more into the limelight for all MAists to explore. I'm not exactly sure who deserves the credit for the broken rhythm methodology, but it's been a staple to compliment our Tuite in Shindokan way before Bruce Lee wrote about it in his Tao Of Jeet Kune Do.

I look forward to your thoughts on my opening question.

[Montana]

I think it depends on whether you're talking about sport/competition sparring, or a real, self-defense situation.

In sport, especially point sparring, you need to mix it up and sometimes be aggressive, sometimes passive.

In self-defense, it depends on the situation. Are there multiple attackers? Is your opponent physically larger and stronger than you? Does he have a weapon?

[sensei8]

In self-defense, I'm totally aggressive because it's me or them.

[tallgeese]

When we look at combative work, aggression is the best answer in almost every possible situation. Passive or defensive mindset almost always gets one overrun. Look at most every dash cam video you see of cops betting beat up, the single event that every one of them will have is the cop backing up, or defending, or trying to block while the aggressor runs over him and takes dominance. Now flip that, every dash cam video where the cop wins with minimal damage will have an example of an aggressive cop pressing the fight.

Granted, this is not a scientific study, nor does it encompass all of the situations where those training in martial arts might find themselves, but it illustrates the mindset the gives one the best chance of winning. If you're training for self defense, it gives a fairly good indicator of the kinds of things we need to be looking at training into our students.

[Montana]

I'm 6'6" tall and weigh 260 lbs and have been pretty passive all of my life. Shorin Ryu karate is a more passive (like Aikido) system in a fight in general.

Sure, we can be aggressive if need be, but generally the system is designed to be a counter-fighter system, not an aggesssive (ATTACK! ATTACK!) system.

If you look at the majority of kata, generally you will find that a block is done first followed by an attack. And yes, I understand a block can also be an attack, but by nature a kata is defending against an attack by letting the attacker strike first, redirecting the attack and following it up with an attack of your own.

In a fight, whether in the classroom or on the street, I MUCH prefer the other person be the aggressor That's my style and for over 30 years it's worked just fine for me. If being aggressive is more your style, that's ok. I have students that would rather attack and I let them because it's their nature and preference.

[tallgeese]

Here's just some highlight stuff from various videos I was talking about earlier. I'm not arguing here that my opinion is right, btw, Montana. Just pointing out where my viewpoint comes from.

First up, a couple of passive cops:

Without getting caught up in the specifics of tactics, I want to look at the mindset choices. Both (and they are indicative of a lot of these things) decide to back up, to defend. This sets them in the idea of defending. By creating distance (a valid choice in some situations- granted) they are making an effort to counter fight in a way. They are going to try to get to their gun or spray, or well pick an intermediate weapon. However, this leads them to getting overrun by an opponent with a mindset that is superior to theirs in regard to winning a fight. (Off topic, we spend way to much time talking about "surviving" a fight, ect. We need to teach our people to win fights)

Now, for a couple of forward moving cops:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrOEObm-cKo

Now you see two aggressive cops both pressing the fight, both with far better outcomes to themselves. Granted, in the second I'd have rather seen the cop definitively win with less outside assistance; however, by continually pressing the fight with take down and tie up efforts he prevented major injury to himself or escape by the offender. A better outcome than a lot of these have.

I would much rather be internet famous as one of the second two cops than the first two. Again, I know this is hardly scientific and does not take into account all the dash cam footage out there, but from my experience of using this stuff regularly in training, these sorts of outcomes are the norm. Aggression usually leads to better outcomes for the good guys.

From my own experience on the job as well as being the guy that does our use of force review every year, I can say that anecdotally this holds true as well.

Lastly, here's a clip from the classic Gracie in Action series- and perhaps it's easier for a non-LEO martial artist to wrap their head around. Now, before we go here, this is not a "this art is better than that" point for me. What is important is the mindset of each fighter. Notice how the decision to defend or attack effects each individual.

In a way, these older videos are more applicable to us, as both martial artist and cops, than professional fight footage (although there have been great learning points with the advent of mma for sd minded martial artist). What we look at in these is a highly trained martial artist fighting someone who is not well versed in his form of combat. This should sound like a familiar analogy to martial artist concerned with being attacked on the street. The style could be anything, this is just the best video representation of it I have been able to find to date. Again, focus on the aggressive vs. passive ratio of how the fights begin. It's this beginning of each (there are 4-5) that is the most important to this discussion.

Gracie fights:

So, there is some of the back ground to my argument. I won't deny that being a counter fighter has advantages. However, I think that data from actual conflicts would give credence to the idea that pressing the fight in combative situations is a good idea.

[Montana]

I understand your pointa, but you also have to keep in mind in the po9lice videos that the police have rules they have to follow. If thety are to aggressive, then they can get sued, lose their jobs, face public redicule, and even go to jail.

However in the first video the attacker was much larger than the officer and he was justified in pullibng his weapopn...as would any cop that was alone and faced obviously over matched physically.

I prefer, and have been successful both in the dojo and on the street, witgh being generally a passive/counter fighter. With my physical size makinbg most of tghe tiem larger than my opponents I would have to be very careful being to aggressive or I would end in in cuffs instead of my attacker.

[tallgeese]

And what works for each individual is important. One can't discount that, results are what matter.

For me, and the guys on my shift (I am an active LEO), I teach a heavy aggressive based pattern. Use of force understanding is important to get one out of the problems you bring up, in fact size is one of the factors considered in Graham vs. Conner. A court case that every cop should be aware of, and quite frankly, wouldn't hurt most martial artists either.

It's important to note, aggression does not have to mean striking them until they are a bloody pulp (although it might). It just means a forward pressing offense. For instance in the second "aggressive cop" video, most of what he's doing is pressing forward with takedown efforts. This works because it makes the bad guy stop his aggression and worry about staying up. There's lots of other training points to take away from this, but we're just looking at aggression vs. passive work right now.

Also, all of the Gracie fights are pressed forward aggressively with minimal striking efforts and almost all revolve around aggressively getting the takedown. Just something to consider.

[yamesu]

Assertive

[bushido_man96]

I think everyone is going to have a different mindset here. In the past, I was more passive when sparring. It never really served me well. So, switching and becoming more aggressive has taken me some time, but it has worked out better for me.

I think each is going to be different, just depending on their personality and mind set.

There is something to be said about the best defense being a good offense. Whereas Montana feels comfortable waiting for a strike, I don't feel comfortable with that at all, and would not teach others to wait for one, either. Action is faster than reaction, and I don't want to end up behind the 8-ball in an encounter.