No Bunkai???

[Alaskandude]

Ok... so, I have been doing a little reading about Karate, and I often hear the word "Bunkai" come up. Apparently, it is a breakdown, and explanation of the application of the movements performed in Kata?

Now what we are being taught in class is a combination of Taekwondo kicking techniques and Jinen-Ryu Karate, which I am guessing is short for Shindo Jinen-Ryu. It is my understanding that it is something akin to, or an off branch of Shotokan Karate, as it uses much of the same kata, and pretty much the same ranking system, though I'm not exactly sure. I have heard a little tiny bit about Shindo Jinen-Ryu, but its obviously either not real popular in the U.S., or its been renamed, because there isnt much to be read on this particular flavor of Karate.

Now, back to my original point of discussion... Bunkai, (or the lack thereof)

I've been to 6 classes at this dojo, and have never heard the word Bunkai even mentioned in class, much less performed, which led me to believe they dont teach it. This was confirmed today when I asked an orange belt in our class who had never heard the term either...

Your thoughts?

Edited March 29, 2012 by Alaskandude

[Dobbersky]

Bunkai - there is no wrong application to kata!

If your school doesn't teach Bunkai that is fine, I am sure after a whikle you can find various techniques and see real applications to them

I attended several Krav Maga Seminars and I could see practically 90% of the techniques from the Pinan/Heian kata being used in various guises. so don't be disappointed just create youi on bunkai and see if there are any seminars etc in you area that focus on this point

[todome]

If it's an off-shoot of Shotokan don't be asking an orange belt much of anything more technical than if there's any hot water left.

[Wastelander]

Ok... so, I have been doing a little reading about Karate, and I often hear the word "Bunkai" come up. Apparently, it is a breakdown, and explanation of the application of the movements performed in Kata?

Now what we are being taught in class is a combination of Taekwondo kicking techniques and Jinen-Ryu Karate, which I am guessing is short for Shindo Jinen-Ryu. It is my understanding that it is something akin to, or an off branch of Shotokan Karate, as it uses much of the same kata, and pretty much the same ranking system, though I'm not exactly sure. I have heard a little tiny bit about Shindo Jinen-Ryu, but its obviously either not real popular in the U.S., or its been renamed, because there isnt much to be read on this particular flavor of Karate.

Now, back to my original point of discussion... Bunkai, (or the lack thereof)

I've been to 6 classes at this dojo, and have never heard the word Bunkai even mentioned in class, much less performed, which led me to believe they dont teach it. This was confirmed today when I asked an orange belt in our class who had never heard the term either...

Your thoughts?

They may or may not teach bunkai. I know some schools don't teach it until you are a more advanced rank (more advanced than orange belt, too). You really need to ask your instructor if they teach any bunkai. Maybe they don't, or maybe they do but only to the higher ranks in the dojo. Also, what are you doing karate for? If it's just for competition or fitness or fun then you don't really need bunkai anyway, unless you want to learn it.

[Zaine]

Some schools don't teach bunkai, and whereas I don't agree with that it's perfectly acceptable. However, Ryu schools usually have a good habit of doing so. That being said, you've been to six classes, it's not unusual to not hear about bunkai at this point. If you are curious about it, ask your instructor. They'll be able to answer all of your questions.

[Alaskandude]

They may or may not teach bunkai. I know some schools don't teach it until you are a more advanced rank (more advanced than orange belt, too). You really need to ask your instructor if they teach any bunkai. Maybe they don't, or maybe they do but only to the higher ranks in the dojo. Also, what are you doing karate for? If it's just for competition or fitness or fun then you don't really need bunkai anyway, unless you want to learn it.

Thanks for the input Wastelander. I was also suspecting maybe its something that you dont learn until you are more advanced, I guess we'll see.

The dojo I train at seems to emphasize competition training. However I am less interested in medals and trophies, and more interested in learning the art itself, and getting in shape. So to answer you question, that is why I train, and thats why I was curious about bunkai, because every time I hear the word Karate... the words kata, and bunkai are usually not far behind. I was just wondering why I'd never heard of it in class.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Alaskandude

[bushido_man96]

Check with your instructor about it. I've done TKD my entire Martial Arts career, so I never knew about bunkai until I found this forum. I'm not sure at what rank it is typical to incorporate bunkai into the classes, and I'm sure every teacher has a different approach.

[DWx]

Check with your instructor about it. I've done TKD my entire Martial Arts career, so I never knew about bunkai until I found this forum. I'm not sure at what rank it is typical to incorporate bunkai into the classes, and I'm sure every teacher has a different approach.

Ditto.

Maybe he just doesn't teach it?

[yamesu]

If you have ever trained a self-defence application or scenario in class, chances are it was a bunkai even if it was not referred to that way.

We do quite a bit of bunkai in kyokushin, some people like it, some do not. Its a far whack away from full-contact sparring most people associate with Kyokushin, but its there and we train it frequently. Ive done hundreds of repetitions of wrist locks and only after months and months finally learned that they come directly from kata... Its all in the eye of the beholder!

Osu

[Alaskandude]

If you have ever trained a self-defence application or scenario in class, chances are it was a bunkai even if it was not referred to that way.

We do quite a bit of bunkai in kyokushin, some people like it, some do not. Its a far whack away from full-contact sparring most people associate with Kyokushin, but its there and we train it frequently. Ive done hundreds of repetitions of wrist locks and only after months and months finally learned that they come directly from kata... Its all in the eye of the beholder!

Osu

Good point. we do a lot of self defense, and combinations, which use the blocking and striking techniques in kata, so I see how that could be considered bunkai, even if they dont call it that. I was just curious about it, like I said, I hear the word all the time when I'm reading books, forums, and so on, I just had not heard the word mentioned in class yet.

I'm still way new to all of this, and I always have a ton of questions, but I'm a little apprehensive about approaching my Sensei with some kind of cross examination regarding his methods of teaching, and the curriculum. Mostly because I dont want to be bugging him all the time with "20 questions", which is why I ask a lot of them here. Thanks for all the help everybody!