Tips/Crituque on my sparring?

[technophiliac]

Hi! I've been lurking for a few months, and I only recently decided to create an account because I am seeking some help with my point sparring.

This thread/post will be a little long because I am covering a few topics related to my desire to improve.

Now before I get called out for participating in tap-tap sparring, I have to say I enjoy it. The martial art that I am currently in trains in mainly self-defense, basic kicks/blocks/punches, and once a month we spar continuous for a week.

So, the type of fighting that I would excel in is the old-school, competitive full contact sparring (no ground fighting though.)

I almost never get to practice point sparring in class (maybe once or twice a year) and I want to improve.

My sensai told me today, that he would be glad to allow me to privately train (or with a close/fellow student) in point sparring once a week, and he could give us some tips/pointers in between classes.

I would love the additional training time, on top of the 2-3 days that I already come in, but I'm more interested in the hands-on point sparring (I already practice on my own time, and in class sometimes.)

My main challenge is, there is only one student who is my gender/height/age/weight, and he isn't as serious about martial arts as I am. It's not that he doesn't enjoy it, It's just that I am probably the only student who has a burning passion for martial arts. So, with that said, I don't want to take the extra time to travel to the dojo, if he isn't going to show consistently.....I can just practice in my garage/yard etc.

So, my solution was to look around for a taekwondo school, who I might be able to speak to the instructor about helping cross-train me for aerials/reverse/high kicks and be able to point spar in every class. But when I spoke to my sensai about it, he didn't like the idea of his top student visiting other schools (he makes a living off of what he does, and from a business sense, I AM a client...)

So I spoke to him about the lack of loudness, passion, and raw power that he taught hard in the 80's/90's when karate students were willing & abundant for him. And he showed me a video of one of his classes that absolutely blew my mind...That class was the one that always took first in nationals, and was the pretty face of karate. And when I asked him why he went from 2 hours of intense training to a VERY program-oriented, slower paced form of working out (50 jumping jacks vs 500, etc) he said that only the student that stayed, were his income, and when he got married, and students moved/grew up, he lost all his income and had to start taking on second jobs, being a Realtor etc to be somewhat financially stable, and nobody wanted to commit the finances, time, or intense training that he taught.

So, he developed programs that would bring back his student base, that would be an easy-effective routine, in hopes that he could "harvest" a few students to be a role model for his school.

I am very loyal to my sensai, and I would never do anything to offend him because of the respect I have for him. But how would I talk to him in other ways about cross-training martial arts? He wants me to at least get to black before I look at anything else, and I agree, but I might be relocating for college soon (I am still in HS) so It's either the college I want to go to, or finishing up for a black >.>

More about my fighting now.

When I point spar, the circuit I am in is VERY strict about contact, and if you act like you are hurt, you can get negative points scored on the opponent. With that being said, I struggle because I train to get in there and KO someone in a fight. So when I train on the side to point spar, I'm not as fast, because I have to focus on control.

I've gotten better at point sparring with a friend, but like I said, the only person I can legitimately spar with isn't dedicated 100%

The circuit that I go to don't have mats, it's just a gym floor. Which I have no problem falling, but it is intimidating, and more slick than mats.

I don't have too much trouble with being "loose" but For some reason I get subconscious nervous shakes, and even when I honestly have no worries/fears I still look down and see my leg(s) shaking lol!

I will include a video of my fight today in hopes of tips/pointers. I sparred in the intermediate 16-17yr old, and was very close to having a shot at winning 1st in my division, and getting transferred to black belt division 17 and younger for grand champion.

From what I can see, (they don't allow anybody to stand on the side of the "ring") I got some decent shots in, but I could have done better....

Oh, also, the only reason I don't switch up my stance (I think I accidentally did once, and I scored a point) is because I am the most comfortable fighting with the right side of my body, and having the left for punches/spinning hook/back kicks.) It's not incredibly effective, but my idol superfoot did a great job fighting from one side

I'm the brown-belt on the left, fighting the opponent in the frog-buttoned KF uniform. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/8239551/kte/

From what My sensai said, and what I can see, I didn't get in & out fast enough. I'm too used to being on my guard to just throw myself into a punch like you are supposed to do in sport point sparring.

His 4th point hit my hand/wrist, and shouldn't have been called.

My 5th wasn't the best counter. I got blasted in the groin, and jabbed in the clavicle (I'm not complaining about getting smacked around a little bit, but I'm just disappointed that I backed up instead of sidestepping and countering/rushing.)

His 5th point was just as close as my left roundhouse to his head. Neither of us really connected, and he got one point for extending his arm vs 2 that I would of got for my headshot.

When we were 7/8, I should have gotten a contact point at the last second for that spinning hook that swiped my groin. I would have been a happy loser if I lost fairly in sudden death, and had a shot at transferring into BB division for a shot as grand champion. Oh well.

Thanks for reading my book hopefully I can get some tips!

[MasterPain]

First, I find the lack of suplexes disturbing.

More on point, use more fakes. Part of the game is to be faster and have better attributes in general. The rest of the game is to tell lies. You were too honest about what you were doing.

[technophiliac]

Thanks!

I'll work on that.

[Kodakmint]

Commitment, when you decide to go in, don't draw back

[DWx]

Welcome to KF technophiliac

If you want to check out some TKD kicks but your sensei won't let you train, there are plenty of good tutorial videos on YouTube. Kwonkicker is really good at explaining stuff and covers the essential kicks and basic footwork: http://www.youtube.com/user/kwonkicker

No offense but don't even bother learning all the "aerials/reverse/high kicks" until you've got solid technique with the basic kicks. Don't run before you can walk. Good basic kicks and good footwork/placement will win you your matches. Besides, once you have a good roundhouse, adding the rotation in for a 360 is a piece of cake but trying to spin when you're still finding your feet with the basic standing kick is going to dump you on your face.

My advice is that you don't need to go in all the time, work on your countering and wait for him to come to you. A good drill to get this going is to get a heavy bag and swing it. Practice throwing out strikes to land just as the bag swings toward you. So from a standing position practice picking your front leg up (don't step in or skip in with the back foot) and jabbing out a side kick or throw the front jab straight out. Its about timing and speed. If you make the bag swing back with your kick, you're not striking, you're pushing. You need to get it so just as the bag hits the low point in the swing, you smack it and stop it in its tracks. Once you get to a point where your sending out a good kick or punch 99% of the time, you can move on.

The progression to this (or you can just do this if you don't have a heavy bag) is to get a partner with a kick shield or pad. Get them to "spar" you so that they're moving around as the would do in a fight. Work on throwing out that front leg side kick and front jab just as they step forward. It should stop them in their tracks and score you the point.

Get the jab and the front leg side kick going and you're halfway there. I mean you're not bad anyway, at 1.12 you do it with the side kick and score and at 2.09 you nearly do it again just the distance is off. You need to be doing it everytime they come in. Just remember to protect your head whilst kicking.

Now what to do if you're unlucky and they jam that front leg or punch? Well throw out your arm. TBH they shouldn't really jam your technique if you've practised hard enough with your timing and speed, but let's say that they do. Well they are now in range to get punched in the face. If they jam your leg, your lead arm can hit them in the face, if they jam your front jab, your reverse punch can come in.

Next you can take the same approach with some more kicks. Back kick is the same principle. You just have to remember that you need a little more room to throw it. Roundhouses work to (but you have to step off centre slightly), backfist instead of jab etc.

Then start working on techniques to go in. If your side kick is good you're part of the way there. Get the roundhouse to the same standard and that's all you need really. If you can do the counter drill I described above where you just pick the front leg up, adding a step in with the back leg will serve you for the time being. You don't need to get much more complicated than that.

On moving in and out, I'd agree with Kodakmint and disagree with your sensei. When you decide to go in, commit to it. In point stop sparring there is no in and out because ideally once you're in you're in and you score. The ref should stop it for a point (either your's or your opponent's) before you even have the opportunity to come back out. Continuous sparring is another matter

If you really do want to train elsewhere, perhaps you can reassure your sensei that you'll still be training with him on a regular basis. Besides, I know that you want to remain loyal, but in the end it is up to you where you train so if you really want to try TKD or something else, your sensei can't stop you.

[technophiliac]

Welcome to KF technophiliac

If you want to check out some TKD kicks but your sensei won't let you train, there are plenty of good tutorial videos on YouTube. Kwonkicker is really good at explaining stuff and covers the essential kicks and basic footwork: http://www.youtube.com/user/kwonkicker

No offense but don't even bother learning all the "aerials/reverse/high kicks" until you've got solid technique with the basic kicks. Don't run before you can walk. Good basic kicks and good footwork/placement will win you your matches. Besides, once you have a good roundhouse, adding the rotation in for a 360 is a piece of cake but trying to spin when you're still finding your feet with the basic standing kick is going to dump you on your face.

My advice is that you don't need to go in all the time, work on your countering and wait for him to come to you. A good drill to get this going is to get a heavy bag and swing it. Practice throwing out strikes to land just as the bag swings toward you. So from a standing position practice picking your front leg up (don't step in or skip in with the back foot) and jabbing out a side kick or throw the front jab straight out. Its about timing and speed. If you make the bag swing back with your kick, you're not striking, you're pushing. You need to get it so just as the bag hits the low point in the swing, you smack it and stop it in its tracks. Once you get to a point where your sending out a good kick or punch 99% of the time, you can move on.

The progression to this (or you can just do this if you don't have a heavy bag) is to get a partner with a kick shield or pad. Get them to "spar" you so that they're moving around as the would do in a fight. Work on throwing out that front leg side kick and front jab just as they step forward. It should stop them in their tracks and score you the point.

Get the jab and the front leg side kick going and you're halfway there. I mean you're not bad anyway, at 1.12 you do it with the side kick and score and at 2.09 you nearly do it again just the distance is off. You need to be doing it everytime they come in. Just remember to protect your head whilst kicking.

Now what to do if you're unlucky and they jam that front leg or punch? Well throw out your arm. TBH they shouldn't really jam your technique if you've practised hard enough with your timing and speed, but let's say that they do. Well they are now in range to get punched in the face. If they jam your leg, your lead arm can hit them in the face, if they jam your front jab, your reverse punch can come in.

Next you can take the same approach with some more kicks. Back kick is the same principle. You just have to remember that you need a little more room to throw it. Roundhouses work to (but you have to step off centre slightly), backfist instead of jab etc.

Then start working on techniques to go in. If your side kick is good you're part of the way there. Get the roundhouse to the same standard and that's all you need really. If you can do the counter drill I described above where you just pick the front leg up, adding a step in with the back leg will serve you for the time being. You don't need to get much more complicated than that.

On moving in and out, I'd agree with Kodakmint and disagree with your sensei. When you decide to go in, commit to it. In point stop sparring there is no in and out because ideally once you're in you're in and you score. The ref should stop it for a point (either your's or your opponent's) before you even have the opportunity to come back out. Continuous sparring is another matter

If you really do want to train elsewhere, perhaps you can reassure your sensei that you'll still be training with him on a regular basis. Besides, I know that you want to remain loyal, but in the end it is up to you where you train so if you really want to try TKD or something else, your sensei can't stop you.

Thanks!

I'm actually pretty comfortable with my basic kicks! (front/side/roundhouse/back etc.) and I have the tornado down 80% The main reason I want to train them is because 1. I like flashy kicks, and 2. kicks to the head are double points, and my favorite part of martial arts are the kicks lol!

It's not that he is absolutely against me training in other martial arts. In fact, he endorses it, as he did the same himself! He is just very nervous about losing a student, and would rather be assured that I made it to black with him before I started widening my horizons.

The only reason I went "in" so much is because the guy kept backing up when I stepped forward. In the first half I did o.k. countering, but after that I just kind of ignored the strikes >.> I was too used to being able to block/absorb strikes for full contact/continuous, and I was awoken when they started calling points for him.

I'm actually really comfortable with countering a blitz with the front/side kick and a jab. But I've had instances where I would stop them dead in their tracks (even making contact), and not get called In this case, the refs seemed to recognize me, so they were alot more "nice"

I've got alot to work on thanks! I will practice!

[DWx]

Thanks!

I'm actually pretty comfortable with my basic kicks! (front/side/roundhouse/back etc.) and I have the tornado down 80% The main reason I want to train them is because 1. I like flashy kicks, and 2. kicks to the head are double points, and my favorite part of martial arts are the kicks lol!... I'm actually really comfortable with countering a blitz with the front/side kick and a jab. But I've had instances where I would stop them dead in their tracks (even making contact), and not get called In this case, the refs seemed to recognize me, so they were alot more "nice"

Not to sound harsh (please don't take this the wrong way) but being comfortable with the kicks and being proficient with the kicks are two different things. You can train the more flashy stuff for fun if you want but to use them in a competition fight is much harder than you think. You mentioned Superfoot Wallace earlier, watch his fights (

) and you'll see nothing overly complicated. As my dad says "keep it simple, stupid". Simple wins the fights, not throwing a 360 and getting lamped mid-rotation. Wallace just uses his front leg and picks his shots. I mean watching your video again, your opponent is fighting with a fairly open guard and everytime he kicks he's dropping his hands leaving himself wide open. A well timed side kick would have scored everytime. I once won a point-stop match by only using a lead jab. Why would I bother throwing the 360 or head kick when a simpler attack would suffice? Just timing it and placing it right will be enough.

It's not that he is absolutely against me training in other martial arts. In fact, he endorses it, as he did the same himself! He is just very nervous about losing a student, and would rather be assured that I made it to black with him before I started widening my horizons.

If that is the case with your sensei, maybe you can convince him then that you will stay with him If he's only objecting due to fear of losing you, surely you can convince him you wont leave?

The only reason I went "in" so much is because the guy kept backing up when I stepped forward. In the first half I did o.k. countering, but after that I just kind of ignored the strikes >.> I was too used to being able to block/absorb strikes for full contact/continuous, and I was awoken when they started calling points for him.

Yeah that's exactly the thing with point stop sparring though. Its basically sudden death scenario. I struggle with it too, much prefer continuous sparring.

[ps1]

I almost never get to practice point sparring in class (maybe once or twice a year) and I want to improve.

There is only one answer to this. Do it more. You can practice all the drills in the world but your body will never learn the timing until you do it over and over. Only time on the mat can make you better. You should take any opportunity to practice it if you really want to get better.

It's just that I am probably the only student who has a burning passion for martial arts. So, with that said, I don't want to take the extra time to travel to the dojo, if he isn't going to show consistently.....I can just practice in my garage/yard etc.

Two issues here. First, it's important you realize now that MOST students will never have a burning passion for martial arts. To many, it's a hobby. Becoming a true martial artist is a lonely and difficult road sometimes.

Second, make your expectations clear to your training partner at the start. That's the only way to be fair to both him and yourself.

So, my solution was to look around for a taekwondo school, who I might be able to speak to the instructor about helping cross-train me for aerials/reverse/high kicks and be able to point spar in every class. But when I spoke to my sensai about it, he didn't like the idea of his top student visiting other schools (he makes a living off of what he does, and from a business sense, I AM a client...)

It sounds like you did the right things in this regard. You spoke to your sensei and were totally honest with your conversation. Now it's your turn to make the tough decisions. Either go somewhere you can get what you want, or honor the wishes of your Sensei.

I was in much the same position when I competed often. I didn't ask Sifu for permission as much as told him my plan. I can't say he was thrilled about the idea, but he accepted it. Why? Because he had as much respect for me as I had for him. He understood that my goal was only to reach my full potential. If your sensei respects you and is comfortable with his coaching, he will accept your decision one way or the other.

Don't put off college just to earn a black belt. The body follows the mind. Not the other way around.

As for the sparring, there are several answers here.

1. Things like the floors and contact points are all out of your control. You simply have to deal with them as they come.

2. You need to realize that superfoot was kickboxing. IE...he could knock the opponent out. You don't have that advantage. By not changing from the back stance, you are severely limiting your options for movement after the opponent gets by the kick. Hence, you get hit. This is common for people who are newer to point fighting of this type.

3. Learn angles and watch your opponent's posture. Most of your attacks were straight into the opponent. This is especially problematic when the opponent has even base (which yours did) and simply backs up alot (which he did). He was able to see which linear attacks were coming and just place his counter punch. Figure out which combinations you like to use on which types of stances. Then drill the heck out of them. For opponent's that attack hard with rushes or kicks, learn to angle outside and enter from there.

4. Know where the judges are. A few of your points hit (his too) and were not counted due to positioning of the judges. Keep the center ref and one side ref (a majority of the refs) where they can see the major target areas. By doing this, you can eliminate the head hunting and start targeting the body, which is usually not counted as much because refs don't have a good view.

Hopefully this was somewhat helpful. Let us know how it goes.

[Montana]

I've been a judge and ref since about 1979 or so at this type of tournament. If groin kicks are allowed, forget tghe TKD kicks. You'll face someone that loves TKD people (like me) to spar against because they fake pretty easy for ghand techniques, and when they try to do any sort of high kick, I neuter them. Figuratively of course.

Anyway, what I saw ibn yoru video is that you are VERY one dimensional. You use a right side kick nearly exclusively, which as a white or yellow belt is ok, but at the brown belt level you have to mix it up a whole lot more.

You ALWAYS went straight at the guy and you nearly always attacked instead of counter attacked (I'm a specialist in coubnter attacking).

You also need to work on yoru speed. MUCH to slow for that belt level. Pick it up and use your hands more, less of the right side kick.

[technophiliac]

Not to sound harsh (please don't take this the wrong way) but being comfortable with the kicks and being proficient with the kicks are two different things. You can train the more flashy stuff for fun if you want but to use them in a competition fight is much harder than you think. You mentioned Superfoot Wallace earlier, watch his fights (

) and you'll see nothing overly complicated. As my dad says "keep it simple, stupid". Simple wins the fights, not throwing a 360 and getting lamped mid-rotation. Wallace just uses his front leg and picks his shots. I mean watching your video again, your opponent is fighting with a fairly open guard and everytime he kicks he's dropping his hands leaving himself wide open. A well timed side kick would have scored everytime. I once won a point-stop match by only using a lead jab. Why would I bother throwing the 360 or head kick when a simpler attack would suffice? Just timing it and placing it right will be enough.

Oh, totally, probably the most "fancy" kick I will use is a reverse hook. No aerials...Too risky. I just mean flashy kicks in general. Kind of like when you wanted to learn how to break boards....It won't REALLY aid you like learning how to throw a proper kick, but it's still fun to twist around when you are young.

 

Don't put off college just to earn a black belt. The body follows the mind. Not the other way around.

Oh heckkkkkk no. I meant, there is two colleges, one in this city, and one in another. I still got another year of training/deciding to do, so I don't want to rush things even though I'm a planner.

 

If groin kicks are allowed, forget tghe TKD kicks.

Nope, you will get a penalty immediately for any strike to the groin. That is why I am upset that we didn't go into sudden death at the end.

Anyway, what I saw ibn yoru video is that you are VERY one dimensional. You use a right side kick nearly exclusively,

Sorry, I don't even realize it sometimes it's so natural for me to just throw my leg out there. But I do agree that I need more technicality with it.

 

You ALWAYS went straight at the guy and you nearly always attacked instead of counter attacked

 

Honestly, I'm not a rusher. But every advance I made, he backed straight up instead of side stepping. So I inched in trying to maintain a distance.

 

Pick it up and use your hands more, less of the right side kick.

That is one of the things my sensai mentioned to me today. I'm in love with kicks, and I feel to vulnerable with my punches (because of the lack of distance.) But he had me work specifically of counters/hand fighting today.