Kata competition

[senseirussell]

So an interesting topic here. This regards kata competition. Normally when I do kata, I use a somewhat upright, practical stance to practice form that I could use in an actual confrontation. However, for competition's sake, I tend to get my stances exceptionally low and use various "techniques" to emphasize movements and add "drama" to the kata. I'm considered one of the stronger kata people in my branch but, despite this, I've never placed any higher than third in any kata competition I can recall off the top of my head. Of course none of the tournaments were hosted by my dojo, but I'm actually beginning to wonder whether there may be some other reason behind the judgment. Perhaps variations in our kata don't match with theirs? In any case, another competition is coming up in about a month or so. Anyone have any ideas as to what the judges like to see other than low stances, dramatic movements, and "fancy" techniques?

Kata competition is good for a few things, in my opinion:

1. It's a great way to help you conquer any kind of nerves you might have about being put on the spot and scrutinized by total strangers.

2. You get to see some kata you might never see, being done by some great forms competitors.

3. It's a great boost to your self-confidence to win a trophy, if you've never had that experience before.

However, judging, of course, is VERY subjective, and not all judges, even the few who are judging you, are looking for the same thing in your performance.

I firmly believe that it's very possible, if the great Okinawan Goju-Ryu master, Morio Higaonna, in his prime, competed in some of today's tournaments, as great as his kata undeniably is, he might not even place! Sounds like heresy, but I've actually seen threads on youtube of his katas, where supposedly experienced karateka think his basics are weak, and pick apart his technique!

Anyway, being yourself, and doing the best performance of your kata possible is the all you can control in kata competition. If you start changing things for competition, you'll drive yourself crazy, since every tournament is likely to have different judges scoring your performance.

-RB

[DWx]

I don't have any Karate competition experience but my general advice is to take a look at the people who are getting the 2nd and 1st places. What are they doing that you're not? If there are really noticeable differences in one or two techniques, then it might be worth adjusting what you're doing to match. Its also probably worth videoing your performance and some of the other competitors so you can look at it later too and pick apart your performance. If you don't mind, maybe you could video your kata so some of the guys on here could give you some advice?

Hmmm well video taping hasn't really been something I've been able to do very often. There are many times I've wanted to video tape it, but I could not for lack of equipment. As per the people who got first and second, there were a few things I noticed. The first thing I noticed was an exaggerated "breath". I assume they were trying to imitate a so-called "breath kiai" in which rather than shouting, they simply exhale hard very similar to how boxers breathe when they strike. To me it sounded more like they were just blowing air through their teeth though. A second thing I noticed is that they never looked before they turned. What I found strange though is that these people did the exact same kata as most of the people that ranked below me in the comp. and it looked very similar, if not identical to the others I had seen: High stances, no look before turning, that "breath", etc. A classmate of mine had speculated that it could have been that the person who came in first just so happened to be the daughter of the head sensei of the dojo the tournament was hosted at. IDK if I want to get into any accusations though.

Even if you just video tape it on a cell phone you can see your rhythm and check things like your stances. You might see something on there that you didn't know you were doing or see something that could be better.

The looking before turning thing is something though. There's a group of TKD tournaments I compete in where I know for a fact they like you to look as you do certain techniques whereas in my school its always look before. I always remember to do it their way when competing in their tournaments if I want to place. Its hard to remember stuff like this but if you want to win medals you do have to make these little adjustments. Thing is with any kata tournament that you have to change the kata for the tournament and the judges unless you are at a tournament run by your own school. Kata is subjective and isn't as clear cut as something like kumite.

[Montana]

Montana and bushido_man96, you two would be very good judges and I wish there were more like you, but I must have missed those competitions--the competitions I have been to tend to have kata judged on speed, control, flashiness and exaggerated stances.

Thanks, Wastelander. I've judged in TKD tournaments for the most part. Yeah, we have high kickers, but the height of the kick is not the only factor in judging a kick; chamber position, lockout, speed and power, rechamber, hand position throughout the kick, pivot foot, target, etc all come into play.

Stances should be balanced, and one should move easily from stance to stance. If a front stance is so deep that one foot must shift in order to move the other, then the stance is no good. Stances should also facilitate the power of techniques. Blocking and striking techniques should generate power from the hips, through the stances, and should be crisp, clean, and focused.

That's my take, anyways.

Whereas I've only judged open, all-style tournaments involving Japanese, Okinawan, Korean, Phillipino, American, Kungfu and essentially...ANY system that was competing against each other, so we had a broad range of hard or soft kata in the same division competing against each other. You have to have an open mind and look at the core elements of the kata, not the"Oh no, he didn't have a low stance so I'll mark him lower" mentality, because not all systems (mine included) use low stances.

I don't like or condone high kicks at all, but in a kata competition I have to forget that and judge the TKD competitor on the same criteria I use for the softer Kungfu competitors kata.

[shadowspawn]

Judging in kata competition is always completely subjective--one day with one set of judges you might win 1st place and the next day with different judges and the exact same performance you could be in last place. Long, low stances and exaggerated techniques do tend to bump up your score, and so does throwing in the occasional slow motion or tension technique or loud kiai. I will admit that I have done all of these things in kata competition, by the way . It can be fun to see all kinds of different kata being run in all kinds of different ways, and sometimes you can even pick up on useful bits as long as the people running them aren't exaggerating to the point of losing the kata completely (although I have definitely seen that happen).

I agree that from one tournament to another it's a matter of what the judge sees, but I don't agree that doing lower stances, slow techniques or excessive kai's makes any difference.

As a judge I look for speed, power, control, accuracy and just plain good, solid technique. Do a back flip or split and I will drop your score down at least a full point. Kai every technique and that will drop you more. Weak kicks/punches or blocks and down it will go further. Weak stances will also drop my scoring, but just because you make a wider, lower stance will not raise the score with me.

Say for example you do Pinan Yondan. Maybe it doesn't look the same as MY Pinan Yondan, and that's ok. I won't mark you down for it one bit because I know systems vary. A kata doesn't have to be done the same as I do it to be great, it just needs to be done well

Yondan was actually one of my favorite tournament katas as a colored belt. Really allowed me to show off my low stances and was just an all around fun kata to do. I'd actually disagree on the kiai every move part. Yes if the kiai is half-assed, it would drop their score with me. But if each movement was strong, crisp, and each kiai was done with conviction, it would probably raise their score in my books. Still that would be a lot of energy wasted and to do so with any kata longer than jyuroku would be impossible IMO.

@bushido: I'd say I'm the same way. Still, a practical kokutsu just doesn't look as awesome as an exaggerated, extra-low kokutsu. I mean I guess it could be practical if you're trying not to get shoulder-thrown, but you just can't move in a stance that low. As per a phone, I do not. I do have a 3DS that I might be able to use though but then I'd also have to find somewhere with enough space for the camera and for me to do the kata. I could probably use my backyard. I'll see what I can get this weekend.

As per asking judges for advice, normally I would but it's an off-island tournament and seeing as my dojo is the only one on the island, I wouldn't want to do anything that makes us seem intrusive/etc. My sensei actually said that if he caught any of us doing anything that would embarrass him or the dojo, he would take us out back and personally beat the hell out of us LOL. Next class I'll ask about what he regards as proper etiquette though.

@russell: That is true. My sensei emphasizes the benefits of kata competition as simulating the same kind of nervousness that one would experience in a life or death situation. It's supposed to help you keep your head and think even under all that pressure and execute each technique with crispness and rhythm even with all that adrenaline rushing through your body. As per changing things to suit competition, unless what I need to change would drastically affect my ability to perform (like adding a 360 degree jump to a kata because a certain school practices the kata that way), I'm usually able to adapt. I've done a number of variations to the same kata that drawing the links between them and adjusting where necessary isn't too difficult a feat for me so long as the kata are not vastly different. If I were to do kata my way though, it would probably tick everyone off LOL I'm pretty sure my bunkai for some techniques is very different than what the judges' bunkai are.

@DWx: I do use mirrors to check my stances. I like to compare all the different ways I take stances to find their strengths, weaknesses, and which look best in terms of wowing the audience. I mean I personally have about 5 different ways of taking kokutsu depending on what the purpose of taking the stance is. IMO, having many bunkai for a single technique is very much a benefit since you will be able to use very similar movements to do many different things. Even something as simple as a gedan barai has many interpretations for me. For critique I primarily turn to my sensei for advice. I will see what I can do about getting a vid though. As per looking, we're always thought to look first then move with the idea that you can't start punching at something until you know it's there. I'd probably never change that since it just wouldn't make sense for me to move before/while I look just like I'd probably never change my habit of looking in the direction of your last attacker before going to yame. As per kumite, even that is kind of subjective but I'll stay on subject here.

@Montana: Our school is generally in the middle with the high vs. low stance debate. Our naihanchi stance is roughly two shoulder widths wide as opposed to other schools who may have their stances almost as high as sanchin and others low to the point where the arc created by their legs looks almost like the top 1/3 of a circle. There is a dojo within our school that deals almost exclusively in low stances though. Needless to say, they're mostly kata focused. I agree on the high kicks as well. I'd go so far as to say I wouldn't condone low stances at all either. Unless you are a practitioner of a throwing martial art such as jujitsu, the potential benefits of lowering you stance to get a lower center of gravity just don't outweigh the potential losses of lowered mobility and a chance of getting kicked in the face. BTW that's the only time our sensei condones kicking them in the face: if their head is at or below the height of chudan.

[Montana]

As per asking judges for advice, normally I would but it's an off-island tournament and seeing as my dojo is the only one on the island, I wouldn't want to do anything that makes us seem intrusive/etc. My sensei actually said that if he caught any of us doing anything that would embarrass him or the dojo, he would take us out back and personally beat the hell out of us LOL. Next class I'll ask about what he regards as proper etiquette though.

I've been judging/ref'ing tournaments since about 1980 or so and I don't know of one single judge, out of the hundreds of judges I've met and worked with, that would take offense at being asked for advice on how to improve your kata in their eyes. Just be courteous, open minded and polite. When a competitor asks me for advice after an event, I look at it as an opportunity, just like in my own class, to help someone improve. Of course, each judge will have their own opinions, such as lower stances, higher kicks (none of which I would recommend personally), etc so you need to take each comment with a grain of salt. Use what is useful to you, toss the rest.