Kata competition

[shadowspawn]

So an interesting topic here. This regards kata competition. Normally when I do kata, I use a somewhat upright, practical stance to practice form that I could use in an actual confrontation. However, for competition's sake, I tend to get my stances exceptionally low and use various "techniques" to emphasize movements and add "drama" to the kata. I'm considered one of the stronger kata people in my branch but, despite this, I've never placed any higher than third in any kata competition I can recall off the top of my head. Of course none of the tournaments were hosted by my dojo, but I'm actually beginning to wonder whether there may be some other reason behind the judgment. Perhaps variations in our kata don't match with theirs? In any case, another competition is coming up in about a month or so. Anyone have any ideas as to what the judges like to see other than low stances, dramatic movements, and "fancy" techniques?

[DWx]

I don't have any Karate competition experience but my general advice is to take a look at the people who are getting the 2nd and 1st places. What are they doing that you're not? If there are really noticeable differences in one or two techniques, then it might be worth adjusting what you're doing to match. Its also probably worth videoing your performance and some of the other competitors so you can look at it later too and pick apart your performance. If you don't mind, maybe you could video your kata so some of the guys on here could give you some advice?

[evergrey]

Honestly, while I can appreciate a kata done well, with exceptional grace and understanding of bunkai, kata competitions have always bored the living daylights out of me.

It's odd, from what I've heard though, how they're judged, especially when they're cross-style competitions, so the judges might not even know if a mistake is being made.

I kind of doubt Kyokushin would do well in cross-style kata competitions. We're not known for exceptionally pretty kata, lol!

I... sorry, my post is not at all useful. I hate insomnia.

[Wastelander]

Judging in kata competition is always completely subjective--one day with one set of judges you might win 1st place and the next day with different judges and the exact same performance you could be in last place. Long, low stances and exaggerated techniques do tend to bump up your score, and so does throwing in the occasional slow motion or tension technique or loud kiai. I will admit that I have done all of these things in kata competition, by the way . It can be fun to see all kinds of different kata being run in all kinds of different ways, and sometimes you can even pick up on useful bits as long as the people running them aren't exaggerating to the point of losing the kata completely (although I have definitely seen that happen).

[shadowspawn]

I don't have any Karate competition experience but my general advice is to take a look at the people who are getting the 2nd and 1st places. What are they doing that you're not? If there are really noticeable differences in one or two techniques, then it might be worth adjusting what you're doing to match. Its also probably worth videoing your performance and some of the other competitors so you can look at it later too and pick apart your performance. If you don't mind, maybe you could video your kata so some of the guys on here could give you some advice?

Hmmm well video taping hasn't really been something I've been able to do very often. There are many times I've wanted to video tape it, but I could not for lack of equipment. As per the people who got first and second, there were a few things I noticed. The first thing I noticed was an exaggerated "breath". I assume they were trying to imitate a so-called "breath kiai" in which rather than shouting, they simply exhale hard very similar to how boxers breathe when they strike. To me it sounded more like they were just blowing air through their teeth though. A second thing I noticed is that they never looked before they turned. What I found strange though is that these people did the exact same kata as most of the people that ranked below me in the comp. and it looked very similar, if not identical to the others I had seen: High stances, no look before turning, that "breath", etc. A classmate of mine had speculated that it could have been that the person who came in first just so happened to be the daughter of the head sensei of the dojo the tournament was hosted at. IDK if I want to get into any accusations though.

@evergrey: The part about the mistakes is true. Once I completely screwed up in kata and got two kata mixed up. I started with one and ended with another LOL but it seemed that no one outside my dojo at the time noticed. I still got relatively high marks.

@wastelander: The only two things working against me I feel are my short stature and lack of flexibility in my legs. Like seriously I cannot kick any higher than chudan which would probably be gedan for the average person LOL. I don't pay it heed though because I wouldn't kick any higher than my own chudan in an actual confrontation. Still high kicks are one "decorative" point that I'll probably never achieve in kata competition. In any case, it's very rare that I'll find someone within my rank division that has as (relatively) long and low stance as I do. I tend to drop really low for competition's sake to the point that it would not be practical at all on the street. For example my kokutsu is so low and long that I cannot move once I lock the stance in. I literally have to do a semi-hop to change stances (I pull my legs up ever so slightly but rapidly to take enough weight off my feet to bring my front leg back and change directions). I like to do kata that feature many "neutral" stances to further demonstrate the contrast of height. It has been a while since I've seriously practiced kata for competition. I'll be working on getting my stances low and, hopefully, my kicks high in anticipation for the tournament.

[Montana]

Check out this thread that I had a while back about what judges look for.

http://www.karateforums.com/from-a-tournament-judge-and-referee-s-perspective-vt39692.html?sid=e11bfc1bb5f51986e0c5b7772343a762

Without being able to look at your kata I have no way of giving you any real advice on making you kata better. Judges are all different andlook for different things. It's entirely possible that the kata just see the other peoples kata as better than yours.

In my experience, judges are people just like you. After a competition ask the judges if they could give you some advice on your kata. They are the ones that gave the scores and they are the ones that can best help you out.

[Montana]

Judging in kata competition is always completely subjective--one day with one set of judges you might win 1st place and the next day with different judges and the exact same performance you could be in last place. Long, low stances and exaggerated techniques do tend to bump up your score, and so does throwing in the occasional slow motion or tension technique or loud kiai. I will admit that I have done all of these things in kata competition, by the way . It can be fun to see all kinds of different kata being run in all kinds of different ways, and sometimes you can even pick up on useful bits as long as the people running them aren't exaggerating to the point of losing the kata completely (although I have definitely seen that happen).

I agree that from one tournament to another it's a matter of what the judge sees, but I don't agree that doing lower stances, slow techniques or excessive kai's makes any difference.

As a judge I look for speed, power, control, accuracy and just plain good, solid technique. Do a back flip or split and I will drop your score down at least a full point. Kai every technique and that will drop you more. Weak kicks/punches or blocks and down it will go further. Weak stances will also drop my scoring, but just because you make a wider, lower stance will not raise the score with me.

Say for example you do Pinan Yondan. Maybe it doesn't look the same as MY Pinan Yondan, and that's ok. I won't mark you down for it one bit because I know systems vary. A kata doesn't have to be done the same as I do it to be great, it just needs to be done well

Edited March 14, 2012 by Montana

[bushido_man96]

Personally, I don't care for the "adjustments" competitors make to their katas to make them look "better." I look for practical stances, good power, sharp technique, and that the techniques are focused at a target.

But that's just me. I'm pretty practical, I guess. But, if you are looking to excel in the forms competitions, then researching what the others do will help out.

Do you have a smart phone that can take videos and upload them to youtube? If so, it beats toting a camera along for filming purposes.

Here's a final thought. After the compeition, ask the judges for advise. After all, they are the ones judging you, not us. I've talked with judges in the past to ask what they look for, or what I needed to work on to make a 7 into an 8 or an 8 into a 9. You'd be surprised at how many will likely give you some advise.

[Wastelander]

Montana and bushido_man96, you two would be very good judges and I wish there were more like you, but I must have missed those competitions--the competitions I have been to tend to have kata judged on speed, control, flashiness and exaggerated stances. I'd gladly run my kata the way I want instead of trying to make it look like a "competition kata" but the only times I've won are when I am in my lowest stances, doing my highest kicks, doing a loud kiai on the strongest-looking techniques and doing the occasional tension technique.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Wastelander

[bushido_man96]

Montana and bushido_man96, you two would be very good judges and I wish there were more like you, but I must have missed those competitions--the competitions I have been to tend to have kata judged on speed, control, flashiness and exaggerated stances.

Thanks, Wastelander. I've judged in TKD tournaments for the most part. Yeah, we have high kickers, but the height of the kick is not the only factor in judging a kick; chamber position, lockout, speed and power, rechamber, hand position throughout the kick, pivot foot, target, etc all come into play.

Stances should be balanced, and one should move easily from stance to stance. If a front stance is so deep that one foot must shift in order to move the other, then the stance is no good. Stances should also facilitate the power of techniques. Blocking and striking techniques should generate power from the hips, through the stances, and should be crisp, clean, and focused.

That's my take, anyways.