Looking for a General Statistic

[Liver Punch]

I'm in the market for a cheap boomstick as well.

After our last shooting excursion, I'm thinking about making a switch in my primary shotgun. That cut down shotgun, even with a pistol grip, way outperformed my 870. If it only had a buttstock and 2 barrels, I think I'd prefer it. So, I'm currently shopping for a side-by-side. I'd be stuck with 2 shots, but that equals 2 dead bad guys, and I can make those two shots super quick.

Next time I'm down, I think I'm going to build a few walls and some ballistics gel to test out assorted weapons. We're going to have a science day.

[MasterPain]

The cut down one was simply awesome. What would such a thing cost me?

[Liver Punch]

The cut down one was simply awesome. What would such a thing cost me?

The base shotgun, or one similar, could be had for less than $100. I refinished my own metal, which could cost you anywhere between $15 and $75. A professional refinish on the metal would be somewhere around $125 and $250. I did the wood myself, although you'd want a real buttstock on the thing (maybe shorter than factory) Refinishing wood is pretty easy, so doing it yourself would be less than $25. Shortening the barrel to a still legal length costs about an hour and a hacksaw. You'd probably want to put some sort of sight bead back on the thing, which would add another $5.

That all adds up to about 8 hours of work with some friends, and as little as $150 or so.

[Groinstrike]

I'm in the market for a cheap boomstick as well.

After our last shooting excursion, I'm thinking about making a switch in my primary shotgun. That cut down shotgun, even with a pistol grip, way outperformed my 870. If it only had a buttstock and 2 barrels, I think I'd prefer it. So, I'm currently shopping for a side-by-side. I'd be stuck with 2 shots, but that equals 2 dead bad guys, and I can make those two shots super quick.

Next time I'm down, I think I'm going to build a few walls and some ballistics gel to test out assorted weapons. We're going to have a science day.

We need to build a shooting course, ive been thinking about doing that for a few years now, we just need an old abandoned house and some targets.

[MasterPain]

The cut down one was simply awesome. What would such a thing cost me?

The base shotgun, or one similar, could be had for less than $100. I refinished my own metal, which could cost you anywhere between $15 and $75. A professional refinish on the metal would be somewhere around $125 and $250. I did the wood myself, although you'd want a real buttstock on the thing (maybe shorter than factory) Refinishing wood is pretty easy, so doing it yourself would be less than $25. Shortening the barrel to a still legal length costs about an hour and a hacksaw. You'd probably want to put some sort of sight bead back on the thing, which would add another $5.

That all adds up to about 8 hours of work with some friends, and as little as $150 or so.

Sweet. Do you happen to know of the legallity of putting a bayonet on such a thing?

[Liver Punch]

Sweet. Do you happen to know of the legallity of putting a bayonet on such a thing?

I believe you'd be completely legal there. Even with the old "assault rifle ban", you'd still be legal with a bayonet or flashlight.

[Liver Punch]

Sweet. Do you happen to know of the legallity of putting a bayonet on such a thing?

I believe you'd be completely legal there. Even with the old "assault rifle ban", you'd still be legal with a bayonet or flashlight.

Now that I'm thinking clearly, since this isn't something semi-automatic, you'd be legal under the old "ban" with with just about anything . You could have a flashlight and a bayonet.

I've been gathering more data from police and the like, and so far, they seem to be of the opinion that if "bad people" are to enter your home while you're sleeping, it's quite unlikely that there are more than 2-3 of them. They also noted that the likelihood of all of them being armed doesn't seem to be overwhelmingly high, and that as expected, they're opportunistic and will most likely flee at the first sign of definitive trouble.

This is the sort of thing that's useful for everyone - be it a group of bayoneted shot-gunners, or your traditional martial artist defending his home with a short sword. Personally, I find all of this to be an extension of martial arts - even though it's oddly not included in almost any of them.

Your classic story of ancient Asian citizens taking up/creating a martial art to defend themselves against bandits, rouge military soldiers, and invading hoards of foreigners seems as though it would lend itself well to home defense and basic military strategy. If your home were made from straw and/or sticks it's probably a moot point however. I think often overlooked areas of self defense are first aid, cyber security, and home security. If the samurai were still in power today, would they know how to stitch a man up, set up a computer firewall, and install better door locking mechanisms? I think so.

[tallgeese]

How have I missed this? Great idea, and a solid way to look ahead LP.

For starters, I can only speak to where I'm from. Of all the Use of Force incidents last year where I work (again, your mileage will vary) we had one, let me say that again ONE documented UoF where multiple attackers were involved on a cop. That's not saying that there weren't times where officer presence or a pointed weapon didn't change the outcome, but at the end of the day our guys only dealt with multiple attackers on one occasion.

Now, from a non-LEO side (ie. victims we go to see), I'll have to pull the stats for mob action (3+ attackers) and see what it tells us. Off the top of my head, most of those that occurred that I had a hand in investigating occurred at a house party or bar parking lot. Rarely at someone's home who was minding their own business.

That takes us to the realm of home invasion. When the offender just decides to come into your home unwelcome and hurt you or your family and take your stuff. We have a lot of these, some stemming from domestic issues (pretty common) but far more seem to be generated off the drug related incidents.

So, I will NEVER way never, but if you stay out of bars, don't do the wild house party thing, and refuse to sell drugs regularly out of your home, you're going to drastically reduce the likelihood that you're a victim of a home invasion or mob action. What I would do, LP is check the local statistic of where you're calling home and find out how may mob actions and home invasions you've had in your jurisdiction in the last few years. Police departments have to keep these numbers. Again, keep in mind that often there are contributing factors behind many of these numbers. The whole concept of the flash mob might be slowly changing this assumption; however, we'll have to see how the numbers work out over time.

Now, let's look at the one percent of the time your home will be randomly selected for a home invasion. One of two things is the case, either: a) the invader has a personal beef with you (not so random but you get the idea), or b) it's a money run for narcotics.

For starters, my first line of defense is rather simple. A locked door and well lit exterior. Most times random thugs will look for simple. Unlocked is simple, locked is harder. It's an amazing deterrent.

Not to mention when people start kicking in your door it: a) gives you plenty of warning, and b) rises (in IL at least) to a reason to use deadly force against the invader.

Now we get to the meat and potatoes of what we're talking about. LP, you're absolutely right, a team of SWAT trained ninja's aren't going to raid your home. It's either a disgruntled friend (term used loosely), or a strung out junkie looking for cash and pawn-able goods. Either is not bringing back up. One to two is the norm. Again, I'll never say never, but let's play the percentages.

The firearm you pick should be one you're comfortable with and has adequate ability to let you put rounds on target in the dark. For that reason, whatever you go with and a shot gun is a great option), I highly recommend a light of some sort. I don't run a gun without one any more. Most of these things happen at night, that means most of your lights are out, you need to be able to identify a target. A weapon mounted light lets you do that and keep both hands on your weapon. This is a bonus for obvious reasons.

[tallgeese]

oops, continuing...

So, now you've lit up whatever gun you intend to be you're home defense weapon. I'm assuming you've taken the time to learn to use it, manipulate it, and shoot it. One area that gets overlooked often is retaining it.

Houses come with all sorts of nooks and crannies, and (in our not-so good scenario) an invader already in your home when you start getting to your gun. It's important to note that he might try to take it from you. Yes, shooting him off is a good idea and the first one I'd go with. What if you miss (yes, it happens even from nearly point blank range) or the round fails to stop him (if we're talking handguns this is entirely possible)? It's highly likely based on firearms function that it will malfunction after the first round in this situation. You'd better have a good idea on how to keep the weapons, clear it, and get it back into the fight.

Think about storage and access as well. How will you get there. I have kids. I can't leave a gun on the end table anymore. So, I have a plan to access the safe under duress. You need to practice these things. Plus a back up to get there. I keep a knife next to the bed with the idea of cutting my way to the gun cabinet. If things are too hairy too fast, there's a larger blade there as well. Both are secondary. I want a gun in my hand.

Once you have said gun, dissecting the layout of your place is important as well. Where are the natural choke points at? Where can you control your immediate area from safety? My wife knows to stay in the bedroom. She has a phone next to the bed from which to call 911 if needed. That way I don't have to get there thru a sea of SWAT ninjas.

Be aware of where other areas are in your home you can't shoot into. I know I have to clear the door to my bedroom before I engage. Why, because before breaking that door to the hall, my kids bedroom is the berm. No good.

If I have to shoot prior to breaking that corner I know I have to either engage differently or drop and shoot from the floor. Here's a good training point. Shoot from unusual positions. They happen. From close proximity this increases the angle of fire to keep the kids rooms safe.

I know, it's a lot of what if's that are progressively worse. That's the idea of good contingency planning. Consider too, not clearing your entire home if you really think someone is out there. One man, moving in the dark into an area held by the bad guy can lead to disaster. There will ALWAYS be a blind corner. Think about establishing a choke point and holding with all your family behind you if you can. This may or may not be possible, but is worth considering.

Lastly, establish a pattern of communication for your wife to communicate with the police if they are en route. The need to know where you are, that you're armed, and that you have a bad guy at gun point. You also need to do whatever they tell you to once they are there. Don't worry about getting hand cuffed. It's normal. Thank about it. If you're a cop, you walk into a dark room there are two guys one with a gun and no idea who is who. Everyone gets put on the floor and cuffed. It will all work out, just don't get jammed up for failing to understand this.

Hope the rambling thoughts here were along the lines of what you were looking for.

[Liver Punch]

I think that what this means is pretty much the logical conclusion I've come to... The most likely time someone attempts to bust into my house is when John J. Meth Addict knocks on my door looking for money to buy more Thunderbird wine, and takes offense when I tell him that his mother prefers the company of swines. I could avoid insulting him, sure, but...

Anyhow, I agree with you on the light thing, lots of attachments do lots of things, but only lights allow you to actually see things. I'd think that this (and a little self-control) would help out the "shooting your wife on accident" thing tremendously. Perhaps a nunchuck light for the traditional guys needs to be in the works?

Last night we worked our first drill. Some of our walls have brick on the other side, while others don't, so working our the safest angles to shoot was step number one. Communication was step number two. I think we'll work on that again tonight.

Edit: And yes - that's exactly the sort of information I'm looking for. Thanks TG.