The standard of karate exams

[Thief]

I'm glad to see that people still fail exams (I mean, not for their failure, but glad the standards are kept...), after what I've seen in various places I almost got disillusioned with where karate was going. For example there was this guy who had opened a dojo somewhere not far from Toronto, Canada who was asking parents for 2,500$ upfront for a full course with the promise that their child would be a black belt by the end of the course.

Myself I took my 2nd dan exam with a dojo in the Toronto area while I was living in CAN, after I had trained with them for 1.5 years, along with me were 2 guys going for 3rd ... sorry for saying this, I don't mean to be neither arrogant nor disrespectful to anyone, but they were ... bad. I mean like, really bad. And still they passed.

In addition, I think that failing a test can instill humility in a pupil. At least it did for me.

This is true, and I also liked your observation that exams should be taken only when one is ready for it, makes sense. But for me the true test, that would make me feel proud or humble, has always been the tournament. I started competing in tournaments when I was blue belt, and ever since the rank became almost irelevant. I just went with the flow as far as grading, and that was pretty much the mindset in our school and in our town (back in Romania, back in the days), your trainers and colleagues would look at you (and you would look at yourself) considering your results in competitions, and not the rank.

Nevertheless, although I go by the principle that what matters is results and not the formal rank, since ranks and belts are so ingrained in the tradition of karate, I am disppointed whenever I see schools that lower their examination standard to the point that the rank given to someone is actually a far cry from what it should be.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Thief

[bushido_man96]

I've failed tests before. Its not really a big deal. I've seen others fail, as well. We just pick up and keep on.

[evergrey]

I've certainly encountered people from other schools on the mat who were quite good! And I've encountered some where I have thought, "good gods... how is this person that rank????" Then I fight someone of the same rank in my style and school and they pack my lunch, lol!

OSU

[still kicking]

Thief wrote:

Myself I took my 2nd dan exam with a dojo in the Toronto area while I was living in CAN, after I had trained with them for 1.5 years

I hope that you had trained somewhere else previously, and that you are not saying that you attained 2nd Dan after a year and a half of training. Wow, I would find that to be a bit inconceivable!

[bushido_man96]

For example there was this guy who had opened a dojo somewhere not far from Toronto, Canada who was asking parents for 2,500$ upfront for a full course with the promise that their child would be a black belt by the end of the course.

That would put up red flags for me, especially if there is a timeline attached to it.

Myself I took my 2nd dan exam with a dojo in the Toronto area while I was living in CAN, after I had trained with them for 1.5 years, along with me were 2 guys going for 3rd ... sorry for saying this, I don't mean to be neither arrogant nor disrespectful to anyone, but they were ... bad. I mean like, really bad. And still they passed.

Bad? Bad how? Can you elaborate a bit on it? Was their technique lacking? Did you feel they did not spar well? Fail to break boards? What were the testing requirements?

In addition, I think that failing a test can instill humility in a pupil. At least it did for me.

This is true, and I also liked your observation that exams should be taken only when one is ready for it, makes sense.

If this is the case, then most schools that follow a protocol such as this are not likely to have many test failures. So we kind of go from one end of the spectrum: "schools are lacking in integrity and standards are slipping because no one fails tests,"; to the other end of the spectrum: "its good practice to only allow those who are ready to take tests, this way, there are fewer to no failures."

The truth of the matter, in my opinion, is that the possibility of a test failure should exist, not that students should be expected to fail. With this in mind, its important to take into consideration what criteria is being tested on, and what weight each piece of the criteria holds in regards to the entire test score.

But for me the true test, that would make me feel proud or humble, has always been the tournament. I started competing in tournaments when I was blue belt, and ever since the rank became almost irelevant. I just went with the flow as far as grading, and that was pretty much the mindset in our school and in our town (back in Romania, back in the days), your trainers and colleagues would look at you (and you would look at yourself) considering your results in competitions, and not the rank.

I disagree in the use of tournaments and competitions in being a part of a test, or using tournament competition performances as a sole qualifier in skill and knowledge. Tournaments and competition are not everyone's thing, and not all great tournament players are good at conveying their knowledge to the next generation of students (as has been discussed in other threads).

Now, I make this arguement with some bias; I am not, nor ever have been, what I would consider an athlete. I don't have a treasure trove of natural talent or God-given physical abilites to work with. Along with that, I'm not ashamed to admit that I have had a very lack-luster tournament career. I've done ok in my share of forms competitions, but sparring was never really my thing. I can bang back and forth on people in class without problems, but when it comes to scoring points and the like in competition, I've never been good at it. Perhaps that means someone holds me in less regard because they know me, sparred me in competition, and handled me well. That's fine with me. But if they would want to tell me or convey to me that I am not really my rank because of my tournament results, well, I think there could be a fun discussion to come out of that.

Nevertheless, although I go by the principle that what matters is results and not the formal rank, since ranks and belts are so ingrained in the tradition of karate, I am disppointed whenever I see schools that lower their examination standard to the point that the rank given to someone is actually a far cry from what it should be.

So what is important, then, is defining what the rank "should be." I would be interested to see this expanded upon. I've seen some ranks with technique I thought was poor compared to the rank they have, as well. But in discussing this, its important to have an idea of what we view of as "the standard" in mind.

[Thief]

For b_m96:

1. How bad were those guys going for 3rd - Well, imagine the average green or blue belt doing kihon - ok, they know the form of the techniques, the stances, they understood the principles of karate like contraction/decontraction, kime, etc .. but than they still have that "clumsiness" (sort of, in the absence of a better term), as opposed to the fluency, speed and accuracy that you'd expect to see in a black belt. That's how those two guys were, and they received their 3rd dan. It's hard to describe it in quantifiable terms, but you get the picture.

Kumite was sort of the same and the worst came with the kata. One of them got mixed up in the middle of it (I can't remember what it was, maybe bassai-sho, or kanku-sho) and had to stop, the examiner told him to start over. He started over, got stuck again and was standing there clueless trying to remember what to do. The examiner helped him out and told him the next few moves till he caught up with the sequence and finished. I not even going to mention the form and spirit of the kata execution.

2.Relevance of tournament activity when awarding ranks - here I would put it this way:it doesn't have to be a necessary condition, but may be a sufficient one (almost). I mean look at it this way: since there is no objective, universal standard by which to measure your abilities, the only way to do it is by measuring yourself against others.

In games like chess and the japanese game of Go (which btw uses kyu and dan ranks) the ranks are given based on the results in tournaments. Makes perfect sense to me.

By giving belts/ranks based on examination only, you end up in with situations where a blue belt from one school beats the **** out of a black belt from another school if they meet in tournament. What is the relevance and credibility of the rank in this case?

for still kicking:

C'mon, of course i didn't get 2 dan in 1.5 years! When I had joined that club i had already been sitting on my 1st dan for 7 seven years, the reason it took longer to move up was that I didn't have any continuity in training since I was moving with my job a lot changing countries, and also I considered it more important to train or compete, and didn't really care about the rank.

[Catfish]

Interesting question!

I have never failed an exam, but we have a pre-grading session and I have failed that once. At my 1st Dan grading I think six people out of 40-odd failed but attempted again six months later and went through with flying colours.

In kyu grades, it's very rare to fail below brown belt but anyone doing any sempai stuff has to really nail it and be at a very high standard. For 3rd kyu and above there is a less formal pre-assessment than for dan grades but it still happens, which I think is very good as it means the standard is maintained and the gradings themselves are overall a celebration of skill.

[Catfish]

Interesting question!

I have never failed an exam, but we have a pre-grading session and I have failed that once. At my 1st Dan grading I think six people out of 40-odd failed but attempted again six months later and went through with flying colours.

In kyu grades, it's very rare to fail below brown belt but anyone doing any sempai stuff has to really nail it and be at a very high standard. For 3rd kyu and above there is a less formal pre-assessment than for dan grades but it still happens, which I think is very good as it means the standard is maintained and the gradings themselves are overall a celebration of skill.

[still kicking]

Thief wrote:

C'mon, of course i didn't get 2 dan in 1.5 years!

Well, you're the one who started the topic of standards (or the lack thereof) for karate ranks. I am very glad to hear that you did not attain the rank of nidan after 1.5 years, but hey, after reading these and other forums for a few years, nothing would surprise me. I seem to recall that a long while back someone posted something about a very young nidan who crawled into her mother's lap and sucked her thumb after leaving the dojo floor, so, you see, my interpretation wasn't totally out in left field. Glad to know you are legit, and presumably, don't suck your thumb when you are through with training for the night.

[davehale]

At my first school, everyone failed their shodan exam the first time unless you did exceptional...real exceptional. This was how that school was, if you were going to get a black belt you were going to earn it their way. It developed a certain spirit and determination in the students, taking a test you were going to fail. I remember my first attempt, I was doing my kata in front of the everyone (each tester did kata one at a time). I let the iminent fail get the better of me and my shihan told me to stop. "Is that the best you can do...do it again." I started over, properly this time and he told me to stop, do 50 push ups, and sit down. It was humiliating, but I have never let an iminent failure hinder me ever since, in life and in karate. Thats how it was at that school and at that time. During tests you were given 3 chances. If you lost concentration, scratched your nose, fixed your gi...if you didn't utterly devote yourself to the task at hand you were told to do push ups. If you were told 3 times, you failed the test. You can bet my 2nd attempt I performed to my fullest extent and beyond.

Kyu testing was less strict, you only had to do ten push ups if you lost concentration. I didn't fail any kyu tests but I was told to do some push ups a few times in my first few tests.