How should dojos Promote students?

[Sainthood]

I have trained at two dojos in the past. At the first students were considered for a belt promotion after a certain number of hours training. I.E Someone who trains two hours a day four days a week is going to be considered before someone who trains two hours a day once a week. Once the student hit the required number of hours they took their test and were promoted to the next belt.

At my new dojo all students regardless of belt, skill or time spent training take their test on the same day. This happens twice a year. If you fail you must wait six months to retake the exam. It also means it takes equal intervals per belt level.... six months as a white belt, six months as a yellow, six months as a blue ect ect. (if you pass the test of course)

I was just wondering how it worked at everyone else dojos and if it seems a bit strange to have everyone tested on the same day even if they aren't ready/ haven't trained very many hours yet.

[still kicking]

Sainthood wrote:

I was just wondering ... if it seems a bit strange to have everyone tested on the same day even if they aren't ready/ haven't trained very many hours yet.

I think it's only strange if everyone passes. In my opinion, a test should be an actual test, and not just a formality. People should be passed only if they can perform the requirements at a skill level suitable for the rank, taking into account intangibles such as effort, improvement, etc., and not just passed along due to having put in the requisite time. It might take a while to get to black belt, but what's the big hurry? That's how I see it, anyway.

[Kruczek]

Since I am the only person doing the testing at my school - they test when I feel they are ready to move on. Bit of a contradiction with what still kicking just said - mine will almost always pass because I don't "test" them until they know everything they need well enough to pass.

I agree though, if it is a real test, then everyone shouldn't pass. Mine is a formality to ensure the students see their progress - otherwise I wouldn't even do "tests".

What makes the difference I think is the number of instructors/testers. If you train with the same guy every day - he will know you are ready without a test. If you only see the head instructor once in a while - then the test is your chance to prove you learned enough from the other instructors and it is important.

Last thought - I agree the most with still kicking's last comment - what is the hurry? Train and learn - belts are meaningless.

[DWx]

We have testing days every 3 months or so for colour belts and our organisation holds blackbelt testing every 6 months. Have to do it like this when you've got a lot of students otherwise you'd be doing testings ever other week. If you're ready, done the minimum hours and are up to standard, you have to wait for the testing day to come round then you can grade. That might end up being a couple of months wait. If testing comes round and you're not quite there, you have to skip that testing day and just wait to see if you're ready for the next one. Most people test for the early colour belts regularly and stick to the 3 month period but at the later belts they tend to choose to skip testing days and take exams every 6-9 months instead.

There's no rush to meet the next testing date but having a date in mind 3 months down the line does give you something to focus on.

[tallgeese]

The base arts I came out of were of the "formality" group. No one actually tested until they were actually going to pass. I like this process. It lets one have the actual artificial stress inducement that a test gives (due to the formality) for the student without wasting a bunch of time scheduling testings.

The BJJ school I'm out of now days is even less formal. Coach thinks you're ready, you get the next belt (or stripe). No pretense of testing at all. I think this is largely to the "live" feel of BJJ. You're always working live and "testing" yourself. No need for a formal test. That said, plenty of BJJ schools do test. I don't think they are wrong, it's just not the way we do it. Being the less formal guy I am, I happen to like it.

[Zaine]

It always was just when we were ready for my school. Sometimes when you have set times you only work hard on the last stretch of the six months, whereas when you are tested when the instructor feels you're ready you tend to constantly work hard. I agree with Still Kicking, it only becomes odd when tests become a formality. I hate seeing a test where the practitioners receiving the test don't earn it. For me a student needs to constantly earn things, including their ranks and as an instructor you can't hesitate to demote someone if they need to be demoted.

[tallgeese]

It always was just when we were ready for my school. Sometimes when you have set times you only work hard on the last stretch of the six months, whereas when you are tested when the instructor feels you're ready you tend to constantly work hard. I agree with Still Kicking, it only becomes odd when tests become a formality. I hate seeing a test where the practitioners receiving the test don't earn it. For me a student needs to constantly earn things, including their ranks and as an instructor you can't hesitate to demote someone if they need to be demoted.

This last point brings up an interesting topic. I'm not sure I agree with the idea of being able to demote a student. What would the criteria be? When age means that he can't physically do the things he did to earn that rank do you take it away? What if he gets an injury that has to vastly change the way he does things, is this a demotion?

Most people would say "no" most likely. But how is any of those different, in the end result, than the guy who can't train for 6-8 months due to work or family requirements?

For me, once someone has earned that rank, it's theirs. They did what they were required and deserve to keep it. Now, it's on them to keep up. If they leave they might have quite a long time on their return to get back to that level, but they still earned it. I don't think it's fair to demote them AFTER they've attained their rank.

I haven't used the bachelors degree I earned in years, but no one has come to take it off my wall yet. By a similar token, I had to spar for an hour straight with heavy contact to earn my black belt. I probably can't do that anymore, at least not with the ferocity that I did at 23. My coaches haven't deemed it necessary to come take my first Dan grade back. Nor have they deemed it necessary to do so despite the fact that 95-99% of my martial training time now revolves around BJJ. It's not an indictment of what I've done before, just where my interest and passion is right now. However, depending on the criteria, one could make an argument that demotion is in order since I don't spend a great deal of time training in my base are these days.

It goes back to the trick bag I think we get into if we start into the idea of demoting people.

[Zaine]

It always was just when we were ready for my school. Sometimes when you have set times you only work hard on the last stretch of the six months, whereas when you are tested when the instructor feels you're ready you tend to constantly work hard. I agree with Still Kicking, it only becomes odd when tests become a formality. I hate seeing a test where the practitioners receiving the test don't earn it. For me a student needs to constantly earn things, including their ranks and as an instructor you can't hesitate to demote someone if they need to be demoted.

This last point brings up an interesting topic. I'm not sure I agree with the idea of being able to demote a student. What would the criteria be? When age means that he can't physically do the things he did to earn that rank do you take it away? What if he gets an injury that has to vastly change the way he does things, is this a demotion?

Most people would say "no" most likely. But how is any of those different, in the end result, than the guy who can't train for 6-8 months due to work or family requirements?

For me, once someone has earned that rank, it's theirs. They did what they were required and deserve to keep it. Now, it's on them to keep up. If they leave they might have quite a long time on their return to get back to that level, but they still earned it. I don't think it's fair to demote them AFTER they've attained their rank.

I haven't used the bachelors degree I earned in years, but no one has come to take it off my wall yet. By a similar token, I had to spar for an hour straight with heavy contact to earn my black belt. I probably can't do that anymore, at least not with the ferocity that I did at 23. My coaches haven't deemed it necessary to come take my first Dan grade back. Nor have they deemed it necessary to do so despite the fact that 95-99% of my martial training time now revolves around BJJ. It's not an indictment of what I've done before, just where my interest and passion is right now. However, depending on the criteria, one could make an argument that demotion is in order since I don't spend a great deal of time training in my base are these days.

It goes back to the trick bag I think we get into if we start into the idea of demoting people.

I infered something that I did not mean to infer. I wouldn't strip a rank because of physical skill but because of misconduct and abuse of power. I agree with you on the point that if they physically earn it they have it. However, if they abuse it, or start picking fights to practice, that for me is grounds for demotion. I don't want a student that I would have to represent me in a way that showed a ugly light on my school.

[unknownstyle]

I agree. I got in trouble a year before my shodan and my choices were to drop three ranks and be able to test for shodan at the same time Zaine did. However my ego said no I am an Ikkyu and will not drop my rank and would rather wait the full year. In a way, I wish I had dropped rank but I think my choice was more humbling to me as I halost my position as the senior student and didn't get to share such a wonderful experience with my best friend.

[Montana]

I have trained at two dojos in the past. At the first students were considered for a belt promotion after a certain number of hours training. I.E Someone who trains two hours a day four days a week is going to be considered before someone who trains two hours a day once a week. Once the student hit the required number of hours they took their test and were promoted to the next belt.

At my new dojo all students regardless of belt, skill or time spent training take their test on the same day. This happens twice a year. If you fail you must wait six months to retake the exam. It also means it takes equal intervals per belt level.... six months as a white belt, six months as a yellow, six months as a blue ect ect. (if you pass the test of course)

I was just wondering how it worked at everyone else dojos and if it seems a bit strange to have everyone tested on the same day even if they aren't ready/ haven't trained very many hours yet.

Personally, I don't like either of those methods of testing. Having a set number of hours of training does NOT necessarily translate into being prepared or ready for a promotion. Everybody learns differently and at different rates.

As for testibngtwice a year and having to wait 6 months ito test again if you fail...BAH! You might correct yoru flasws after a failed test and be ready in a WEEK, and have to wait 6 months?

I test my students daily by watching what the do and how they are progressing ibn class. I hold no formal tests, but rather when they are ready I give their their promotion.