Does an instructor need to be (or have been) a good fighter?

[evergrey]

OSU,

In your opinion, should a martial artist who goes to teach be a good, accomplished fighter who has been tested and been successful?

Do you think that they have to currently be a good fighter, or can their past experience stand for them when their own bodies no longer can?

When, if ever, is it okay for an instructor to not be (or ever have been) a good fighter?

***

My answer:

I am coming from a knockdown full contact perspective, being a student of Kyokushin. I fully accept that it may be very different for those whose styles do not involve contact, and that's okay too! Just assume that I'm speaking mostly of styles with contact, or which tout having effective self-defense training.

I think that it is important. An instructor, in my opinion, doesn't always have to still be able to fight well, but if they no longer can, I think that they should have someone there to assist in kumite practice who still can fight well.

If an instructor wishes to teach people how to fight, I do not think they can do so as effectively if they have never learned how to effectively utilize the techniques they are trying to teach. I think that it is important to have experience to draw from, as well as a realistic outlook on what does and does not work.

I admit that I personally am a little leery of instructors who have never fought, especially if they also state that there can be no alive partnered sparring because all of the techniques they train are "too deadly." Can they really be sure that it will work? There are a lot of myths in the martial arts world, from "this strike will kill a person in two weeks" to "pressure points will drop anyone" to "hitting a woman in the chest will cause her to get cancer!"

I think that trying to teach someone how to fight without ever having really fought is kind of like trying to teach someone how to fly a plane when you yourself have only ever read about flying, and watched videos about flying, and maybe played some flight simulator computer games.

I can see how it would be different in, say, a style that is all about kata and not at all about fighting. As long as they do not claim to train effective fighting.

What say you?

OSU!

[MasterPain]

Great topic.

I love throwing out the old quote about the definition of the word is. Define fight. Instruction of what? Self defense? Knockdown tournaments or mma? Lots of legit answers possible.

Competitive fights are great fun, and educational. The best use for full contact competition for the defense-minded martial artist is dealing with the adrenal response. Knowing you are going to fight a trained individual who is actually trying to hurt you in front of 1,000 people is a stressful situation. Learning to function with a clear head in this state is a great tool for self defense.

Other than that, it gives your technique a reality check, although if you needed a reality check, you most likely lost. You should have gotten your reality check at the dojo. I have a friend who coaches mma fighters and they are doing quite well. Ask him if he's ever fought and he'll tell you simply "Almost every day." Frankly he needs to lighten up, he's not young enough to be getting hit like that all the time.

The funny thing about self defense training, is a bit of LARPing is needed (Magic missle not necessary, though fun). Scenario training is a little strange that way. Adult games of cops and robbers are great. I've been in 2 mma fights, but I pulled a rubber knife out while sparring and got hit harder than I've been hit in the cage, because large men with knives are scary. We take our fun seriously, I guess. There is no competitive arena for knowing when to lock your doors, find a better parking spot, yell "help, help, I need an adult", deploy weapons, run like a frightened child, or tell someone how there is hope for a better future so just go with the nice men over there, ect.. The only place escape is winning is a WWE steel cage match. In real life, escape unharmed is winning, usually. For that matter, MMA fights are between willing, legally protected fighters. Imagine if the winner had to defend level of force used, the continued attack of a downed fighter, forward aggression against someone who is retreating... Self defense is much more than fighting.

Point to my rambling, is one is to be gathered, is that there is not a competition for self defense, but that doesn't give an excuse not to test technique in a manner as close to a real situation as possible.

[MaxMarks]

I guess I'd really like to know what you mean by fight. If we talk about competition I would say it's not necessary that they have fought competitively but you will find most trainers have competed to some degree. You're looking at two different aptitudes: teaching and fighting. Some of the best trainers aren't great fighters and some fighters can't teach. You see this sort of thing in the sales department of a business all the time. The best salespeople don't always make the best sales managers and some of the best sales manager aren't good salespeople.

In the case of self defense your most skilled avoid the fight. Unless you're out looking for a fight, which I hope no one is, it a rare circumstance. If we waited for all martial artist to get in this kind of fight before they taught we'd have very few teachers (especially in my quiet spot up here in southern New Hampshire.)

I say measure a teacher by their ability to teach and and fighter by their ability to fight.

[Dobbersky]

Being a good fighter does not guarantee you'll make a good teacher! I know this from experience, I attended a Course by a reonouned Champ and his teaching skills were useless! but I've attended Courses by Instructors who've never competed and found that there teaching skills were second to none. If you want to teach, you need to sacrifice your fighting career, if you wish to fight you need to forget about teaching, at least for you fighting career is over.

My Sensei always told me Martial Artists take 2 main paths, Fighters who love to compete etc and Instructors who love the technical side of the art, perfecting it etc. Of course you get those who attend just for themsleves, they don't want to teach and they don't want to fight, these are the guys who are happy to sit at brown belt or first Dan forever unless they feel they must do it for themselves!

Now I did my fighting durinig my Muay Thai Days but took Knock Down Karate as my vocation! I like to spar, but I love to teach. I work so much on Bunkai sometimes I forget the sparring side of the art!

[Groinstrike]

Great question,

My answer would be not necissarily. From personal experience, a good number of the black belts that have come out of Bujin Bugei Jutsu have tested there skills in some sort of sporting arena. That includes MMA, IBJJF tournaments, Full contact karate tournaments etc. They have all been met with a good deal of success and many trophies and medals to go along with it. This is not the purpose of our art however, I have known great martial artists and great teachers of martial arts that have never fought in a cage, or grappled in a tournament. These instructors are still capable of delivering information in a way that their students reveive the most benefit from their instruction.

These men have never "competed" but i have sparred with them and it is not a pleasent experience. So no, one does not have to be an accomplished fighter to be a great martial artist or a great teacher.

[evergrey]

Well, being able to spar well could count. ;}

[Liver Punch]

Aside from displaying some level of competency at whatever his particular art employs as a fight simulating drill, I'd much rather have an instructor who has never been in an actual fight. Learning to avoid a physical confrontation negates any ability to perform within one.

[evergrey]

So you'd be wanting to train in track and field, then? ;}

[Liver Punch]

So you'd be wanting to train in track and field, then? ;}

I'd much rather be able to outrun someone than "beat them up."

[MasterPain]

So you'd be wanting to train in track and field, then? ;}

I'd much rather be able to outrun someone than "beat them up."

The grass is always greener over yonder.