Don'r leave them again!

[BizMarkie]

Afghanistan is not getting the support they need. The Northern Alliance are not good guys. The government controls only Kabul. The opium fields that were rooted out under the taliban are bigger than ever. The promised support foodways is not being delivered...the west should not abandon them again or bad situations will arise.

[ZR440]

So you want us to develope this country into a safe democracy that has an educated population and a vibrant economy? If not, it'll stay the same forever.

[BizMarkie]

Of course I want Afghanistan to become a democracy! And there's no one else but true democracies that can help the afghans to beome a democratic nation. What worries me is that the afghans will once again turn theirs backs agains the world because of lacking interest. A few months before the attack on the WTC I thought that Afghanistan must be one of the worst places in the world to live in...and I still think so. But since the taliban has been overthrown (which I thought was good), I believe a great future lies ahead! In the way stands american oil interests, political ambivalence, racism and ignorance! USA and Europe should see to it that Afghanistan might live and prosper...cause boy! they deserve it!

[Taikudo-ka]

- "Afghanistan is not getting the support they need. The Northern Alliance are not good guys. The government controls only Kabul. The opium fields that were rooted out under the taliban are bigger than ever. The promised support foodways is not being delivered"

 

Did you really expect anything different?

 

"Democracy" is the furthest thing from the US mind. If they wanted "democracy" in the middle-east, they could start with some of their "allies" like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait... Oh, wait, those are the "good" dictatorships...

[G95champ]

We can't win. LOL

 

Ok so we help overthorow an oppressive goverment like the Tailban. No thanks. I agree the N. Alliance are not angles. Heck they were the ones we helps get rid of years before. However if the USA steps in and uses its army to build a new goverment. Guess what they say now? Look at America not letting those people choose for themselves. Its a no win deal for us you can always make a bad PR case aginst the US.

 

Afghanstian has always been a poor war torn country. Guess what chances are it always will be. 1. No natural resources. 2. No coast for trade. 3. Poor land for farming. 4. Unstable neighboors Pakistian, India, Iran, former Soviet Republics. 5. No stable religon, ethnic group, etc.

 

Is the USA doing all it can? Na but if we send more money do you thnk it will be used right? I doubt it. If the USA forces change will we get bad PR? you bet. Where from? China, Iran, Iraq, even allies like France and Russia. However the question you must ask is the people of Afghainstan better off today than they were one year ago? You bet.....

 

America don't do everything right but at least we do something. Yeah we got special intrest but who don't. In the end we will do more good than we will bad.

[SBN Doug]

 

That about sums it up G95champ.

[BizMarkie]

...no he doesn't sum up anything. It's the rantings of a fool!

[three60roundhouse]

...no he doesn't sum up anything. It's the rantings of a fool!

 

[color=indigo]Name calling is the ultimate way to make you look like you have no good point to add to the argument! Keep it friendly! I agree with G95, it's no-win situation as far as PR is concerned, but I think it would be morally better if we tried to coerce them into democracy, or at least offered them a little more financial aid. Or else we will have Taliban II. [/color]

[BizMarkie]

You are very right, and I am sorry for losing my temper. This is certainly not the right forum for that. I do apologize.

 

It's just that certain remarks upset me.

We can't win. LOL

Winning is not what it's about! How do you win by slaughtering more civilians than were killed at WTC? How do you win by letting Geneva convention protected POWs melt away and rot inside metal containers? How do you win by promising someone aid and then not give it to them? And is it really a laughing matter?

 

And you weren't there to overthrow an opressive government! That idea was conceived after the attacking forces failed to find any heads of Al-Qaida. Bin Laden got away and so did Mullah Omar...and why? Because Bush only used airstrikes and didn't put any men on the ground...another failure on his part.

you can always make a bad PR case aginst the US

PR?!?!...is that's how you see this world? Stop bombing weddings and stop working with some dictators at the same you bomb others. It's a matter of life and death for the less fortunate in this world...and you spit in their faces by talking about PR...

 

I agree that Afghanistan has alot going against it ever really flourishing, but you sound like we should abandon them because of it. And that's ignorant. Now to your points...

1. No natural resources

You mean like Japan?

2. No coast for trade

Ah, like Switzerland?

3. Poor land for farming

Like in Vegas?

4. Unstable neighboors Pakistian, India, Iran, former Soviet Republics

Pakistan will not try to invade Afghanistan because of their current relation with the US. India is a democracy with no intentions of fanning the flames, considering the Kashmir situation. Iran knows better. And the former republics of the Soviet Union are too weak.

5. No stable religon, ethnic group, etc.

Most countries have no stable religion.

Is the USA doing all it can? Na but if we send more money do you thnk it will be used right? I doubt it.

Well why isn't the USA doing all it can? Racism? Lack of interest? As a provider of aid and support one can put pressure on the reciever; and I believe that the allied forces is more than able to check where its money's going. Then you go and rant about PR again...it's sad to see.

In the end we will do more good than we will bad.

Yes, by ignoring the Kyoto agreement, by not attending enviroment conferences, by not ratifying the ban on personnel mines, by breaking with the ABM treaty, by disregarding the Geneva conventions in war time,

 

by not accepting criminals to be prosecuted in an international crimes tribunal, by working with dictators and murderers...yes, you are so right...

 

I would like to thank three60roundhouse for keeping me in check and I will,in the future, not put something up before thinking it over twice.

[G95champ]

First of all Im glad you relaxed. LOL

 

Well my friend I am not going to set here and counter each

 

statement you made. However I am going to say this.

 

We are at war? Right.... Yes. Our plans are flying over Afghainstain to protect it. A wedding party fires gun shots. We assume it is anti air craft fire. What would you do? Let me put it this way your walking down the street and a guy holding a knife looks at you and says give me your wallet? You kick him..... Only to find out he was reading sign on a bus going by. OOOPPPPSSS.....

 

When you are at war or on edge you do things without thinking. Do you think we bombed that party on purpose? America has lost more troops to friendly fire than anyone since WWII because we try and keep the bombing as close to the battlefront as we can.

 

As far as what the NA did to the guys in the drums. Do you think we knew about that? Correct me if Im wrong but Afghainstan is not a member of the geneva convention. So the NA don't necessarly have to play by the rules. You head the saying all is fair in love and war. Well Im not making excuses but at the same time we are at WAR....

 

When I said stable neighbors I ment someone to trade with not invade. Such as the NAFT with the US, Mexico and Can. Or the EU now. Afghainstan don't have anyone. Why? Because of a lack of farm land, sea ports and resources they have nothing to trade. All of the places you mention have one of those things I mentiond.

 

Japan - Has resources just not Iron. They have fish, and spices. They also have great sea ports. They have a rich history and common ethnic group and religon.

 

The Swiss - Have tourism. People come to ski and vacation. Not sure about resources but I would guess they have coal in those hills. They are also located arround some rich people. Germay, France, and Itally.

 

Vegas? - I assume you mean Los Vegas which is a city in a state in a country. Thus it don't have to be self sufficent. However Vegas may be the biggest city as far as tourism in the world. The state of Nevada has resources as well. Gold and Copper being the big 2.

 

Religon most contries do have a stable religon. You can look at almost any contry and say they are this or that. With the exception of the Balkins and places in South Asia like Afghainstan that are mixed. Even the middle east is stable. You know Iraq is Islam. You know Saudi is Islam. etc etc etc.......

 

As far as PR. No its not about PR but your saying it is. Im saying anytime American can be made to look bad we will. You don't see on TV the millions of people we send food to each day. You don't see US troops giving Iraq soliders food at the end of the gulf war. You don't see us rebuilding Japan and Germany after WWII. Its easy to focus on the bad. However if you think for a minute the world is not a better place because of America you got another thing comming.

 

Your last statement talked about all the treaties we broke. LOL. Come on. ABM only the US and USSR were members of that treaty. Last time I checked the USSR did not exist. Should we honor a treaty with a contry that no longer exists? Thats like saying we Bob died and still owed him 10 dollars and you took a 10 laid it on his tombstone. Come on....... Let me add to that President Reagan met with Gorbachev in Iceland in 86. Reagan never gave in on SDI. Burh Sr never gave in on SDI. Clinton quit SDI in about 95. No treaty was ever set up for us to build a missle defense shield. Bush Jr. is bringing back SDI. You know as well as I do the ABM treaty is useless. If WWIII ever starts and Nukes are launched they will be from Subs not ICBM's......

 

As far as enviorment. Last time I checked the USA does no more now than we did 20 years ago. Saw that on the History Ch a week ago. If you wan't we can't fix the enviorment tell the 3rd world contries to step up to the plate.

 

Why does everyone look at the US and say Racism? LOL we are the least Racist country in the world. Sure we got problems but on much small scale. LOL this kills me when I hear it. We are made up of all differant ethnic groups. Sure blacks and whites don't get along here just like in South Africa. Sure Jews and Musslims have problmes just like they do in the Middle east but guess what we don't kill each other like they do in those 2 places. Come on wake up we are the least Racist Nation you will ever find.

 

You know what you can belive what you want to. At least you can in America. Im a history teacher. I know my stuff and if you think America has not made the world a better place think again. Im not saying your points don't have Creed because they do. However we are not the bad guy. Ofter the media even in our own contry make us out to be. Remember The bad things make a better story.

 

You see we can't win. Even if we instal a great goverment in Afg. we have people say thats a US puppet. If we leave it alone and let them work it out they say the US don't do enough. We always get bad PR. I hope you realize that......

 

I sorry I guess I did counter each point.