Kyokushin VS Shotokan

[deckerdude]

Never EVER will i change from my style of Shotokan! Kyokushinkai is said to be the 'Strongest' Karate, (Kyokushinkai 'till i die!), but no one can argue with guy's like 'Bassaiguy' either with what he says about Shotokan! (It's SHOTOKAN not SHOTOCANT is our saying!). Besides, i have an afinity with the Great Master Funakoshi-he died the year of my birth.

[pers]

Another thing to consider as main diferrence between the two styles is that shotokan is for life ,as I said the emphasis in shotokan is the perfection of technique and ways of delivery and the art of evasion .

while kyukoshin demends a great deal of pyhisical conditioning and being able to absorb full contact body shots in their kumite , they stand up chest to chest and unleash full contact blows at each other .

shotokan kumite does not require you to stand up and exchange blows but it requires you to avoid getting hit and their training is geared towards that .

for a shotokan practitioner who has trained since his twenties and reaches old age he can still train in shotokan , he would just adjust his body and adopt his techniques to his requirements .

you still see in shotokan competitions like JKA all Japan championships that in kumite they try to knock each others head off but you see in all of them they try to avoid getting hit and try and hit their opponents ...

shotokan teahces to hit and not to get hit !

even an 8th dan shotokan master's ultimate aim when training is to perfect that in his quest ... to hit and not to get hit !

[Kuma]

I would disagree with saying the Kyokushin system is not focused on lifelong practice. Yes, our training is very hard when we're on the younger side, but as you advance in the Kyokushin system you evolve from the harder, linear practices to the softer, more circular practices (Go and Ju, both from Sosai Oyama's Goju Ryu background). This is why Kyokushin continues to place a big emphasis on kihon and kata as well. Kyokushin is a Japanese karate and Oyama very much wanted it to be a budo karate.

Many of the senior Kyokushin instructors are now up there in years yet still train and spar with the young bucks. One of my instructors did a 50 man kumite for his 50th birthday. Our head instructor is in his 70s and is right next to us for all our training, from the bowing in to the kihon to the kumite drills to the calisthenics at the end. Kyokushin tournaments are only a portion of what the actual art of Kyokushin is itself.

[Honorwo]

Hi everyone im new to the forum but not in the arts. I am solely a karate practitioner by choice. On the above comment if I at add I went from a style which branched off from the traditional shotokaun views and it was in fewer words a slap in the face. The style in which I trained in has fourteen kara before black then countless after black. But all and all the art you choose comes strictly down to what you want and the feeling you get when you bow in once you walk through the doors the instructor and the sense of pride and achievement you get once you bow out. I don't believe any martial art to be over another just to feel comfortable with the art you choose.

[pers]

I would say to the thread starter that if you like to see what shotokan is about and to further make my point as my above posts , watch Lyoto Machida in UFC , his footwork , stance and how he avoids getting hit by staying out of range and his counters with his excellent timing and the power that he generates with his correct posture and technique .

I can see all the ingridiants of shotokan practice in his fighting , all those different kumite drills are evident in his moves .

[Sainthood]

Thanks for the link Pers. It`s interesting to see the differences between the styles even within the same martial art.

[Dobbersky]

Both style are awesome styles and I can not say either will not give you the tools to defend oneself effectively. But there is only one issue I have with Shotokan and that's only from MY experience of visiting Dan grades to my Dojo, is there adaptivity to the use of Sabaki, and it seems rather Rigid in execution of techniques. Kyokushin is similar to Shotokan but Sabaki is a key point in the training of Yudansha (Black Belts)

[hangetsu123]

while kyukoshin demends a great deal of pyhisical conditioning and being able to absorb full contact body shots in their kumite , they stand up chest to chest and unleash full contact blows at each other .

shotokan kumite does not require you to stand up and exchange blows but it requires you to avoid getting hit and their training is geared towards that .

for a shotokan practitioner who has trained since his twenties and reaches old age he can still train in shotokan , he would just adjust his body and adopt his techniques to his requirements .

you still see in shotokan competitions like JKA all Japan championships that in kumite they try to knock each others head off but you see in all of them they try to avoid getting hit and try and hit their opponents ...

shotokan teahces to hit and not to get hit !

even an 8th dan shotokan master's ultimate aim when training is to perfect that in his quest ... to hit and not to get hit !

I think you hit on a contention that I have with kyukushin practitioners when they down grade shotokan kumite. Imo both styles are great, niether styles kumite is any better. Yes, krukushin kumite is grueling but it lacks the reality of head shots. Imo one can not stand toe to toe trading blows when head shot are in play. So..... in as many ways kyukushin kumite is as artificial as shotokan's. However, I am not saying that both styles of kumite is flawed.... I think that both styles teach a different strategy that is all.

[pers]

Both style are awesome styles and I can not say either will not give you the tools to defend oneself effectively. But there is only one issue I have with Shotokan and that's only from MY experience of visiting Dan grades to my Dojo, is there adaptivity to the use of Sabaki, and it seems rather Rigid in execution of techniques. Kyokushin is similar to Shotokan but Sabaki is a key point in the training of Yudansha (Black Belts)

Tai sabaki is an important part of training in shotokan ,if you did not see that demonstrated by the shotokan practitioners that you met then you must question their school and the instruction they have recieved .

As I said in my original post in this thread not every club that claim to do shotokan is up to it ,and that goes for every dicipline .

I myslef have seen many shotokan practitioners of poor quality who are still stuck to very basic beginners type of standard despite claiming to have trained for 15-20 yars of training ,that is becuase they kept doing the same stuff for so long , I have seen many 3rd or 4th dans who are at best at brown belt level . Long and rigid stances and very limited mind set and aproach to karate .

We cant blame the style for that but the particular school and the instructer.

with so many schools and instructers who have very limited knowledge the result is a watered down style .

[evergrey]

I really would like to spar with some good shotokan practitioners from a good school who can handle kumite with contact! The founder of Shotokan taught Mas Oyama, after all. I'm very curious. And I hear a lot of good things about it.

Just need to not spar any more rubbish Shotokan people, lol. I need some who don't cry when a 7th kyu taps them. :/