Not yet a practitioner

[sojobo]

PS, you anywhere near Gothenburg?

[Wastelander]

That said, I have worked out with Wado-Ryu people and they are good folks and it seems like a solid system even if I don't agree with all of the methodologies I've heard from them.

Can I ask Wastelander, what methodologies didn't you agree with?

Certainly! Since my exposure to Wado-Ryu has been fairly limited outside of forums and a few practitioners I have trained with, I can't say that this applies widely to the style but I know that at least some Wado-Ryu practitioners practice kata but no bunkai. I don't agree with that practice even a little bit, but as I said I don't know how widely it applies. Thanks!

[sojobo]

That said, I have worked out with Wado-Ryu people and they are good folks and it seems like a solid system even if I don't agree with all of the methodologies I've heard from them.

Can I ask Wastelander, what methodologies didn't you agree with?

Certainly! Since my exposure to Wado-Ryu has been fairly limited outside of forums and a few practitioners I have trained with, I can't say that this applies widely to the style but I know that at least some Wado-Ryu practitioners practice kata but no bunkai. I don't agree with that practice even a little bit, but as I said I don't know how widely it applies. Thanks!

Hmm, that’s interesting.

Strictly speaking, and as I understand it, Wado doesn't utilise the "process" of bunkai or at least not in the same way that Okinawan styles do.

That said, Wado kata is not just performed as a dance - even when done solo. Typically we use the term Keisetsu, which means to physically comment on a movement (by doing it against and opponent) - but then this is done without changing the basic shape of the technique found in the kata.

This is different to the Okinawan approach of bunkai which essentially means to take apart.

To less informed of course - this looks like a kinda half baked way to approach your kata training, but then when you consider that the majority of Wado's DNA come from Nihon Koryu Bujutsu - and then factor in the plethora of paired kata (with jujutsu origins) that we have (compared to Okinawan styles) as a result of that - then the picture becomes clearer.

Basically, the Wado kata and the wado approach to kata can't be realised imo, unless they are practiced in tandem with Wado's paired kata.

And it’s that marriage that non Wado practitioners can’t appreciate – because they have no exposure to our paired kata work.

As I usually say to Okinawan karateka. Wado has a different approach – not better or worse just different.

Sojobo

Edited January 13, 2012 by sojobo

[mrmango]

PS, you anywhere near Gothenburg?

Yes I'am, about an hour away by bus and train.

and thanks for your words!

[sojobo]

PS, you anywhere near Gothenburg?

Yes I'am, about an hour away by bus and train.

and thanks for your words!

I am green with envy

Shingo Ohgami is one of the worlds greatest Wado karate instructors.

I have trained with him and his students many a time and he is well worth an hour on the train.

http://www.wadokai.se/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=2&id=5&Itemid=16

sojobo

[mrmango]

I have trained with him and his students many a time and he is well worth an hour on the train.

Where I'am going to train won't be in Gothenburg. But about 25min by bus and one of the instructors will be Ove Viggedal.

Edited January 13, 2012 by mrmango

[sojobo]

Fantastic, that's a win win for you.

You have fun - you will be in great hands.

Keep us posted.

Sojobo

[Wastelander]

That said, I have worked out with Wado-Ryu people and they are good folks and it seems like a solid system even if I don't agree with all of the methodologies I've heard from them.

Can I ask Wastelander, what methodologies didn't you agree with?

Certainly! Since my exposure to Wado-Ryu has been fairly limited outside of forums and a few practitioners I have trained with, I can't say that this applies widely to the style but I know that at least some Wado-Ryu practitioners practice kata but no bunkai. I don't agree with that practice even a little bit, but as I said I don't know how widely it applies. Thanks!

Hmm, that’s interesting.

Strictly speaking, and as I understand it, Wado doesn't utilise the "process" of bunkai or at least not in the same way that Okinawan styles do.

That said, Wado kata is not just performed as a dance - even when done solo. Typically we use the term Keisetsu, which means to physically comment on a movement (by doing it against and opponent) - but then this is done without changing the basic shape of the technique found in the kata.

This is different to the Okinawan approach of bunkai which essentially means to take apart.

To less informed of course - this looks like a kinda half baked way to approach your kata training, but then when you consider that the majority of Wado's DNA come from Nihon Koryu Bujutsu - and then factor in the plethora of paired kata (with jujutsu origins) that we have (compared to Okinawan styles) as a result of that - then the picture becomes clearer.

Basically, the Wado kata and the wado approach to kata can't be realised imo, unless they are practiced in tandem with Wado's paired kata.

And it’s that marriage that non Wado practitioners can’t appreciate – because they have no exposure to our paired kata work.

As I usually say to Okinawan karateka. Wado has a different approach – not better or worse just different.

Sojobo

Thank you for explaining that! I never meant to imply that I thought one methodology was better or worse, necessarily, just that I didn't personally agree with it. Now that you have explained it better (usually I have only heard "we don't do bunkai" without any accompanying information) I can see how you can still make kata practice valuable.

[Dobbersky]

I also noticed many people seem to look down on wado-ryu except the people practicing it, no idea why.

Who looks down their nose at Wado? Ask any serious practitioner of Karate (regardless of style) what they think of Wado and I doubt they would look down their nose at it.

As I wrote earlier in the post I really want full contact sparring, and I'm not into kata stuff at all.

If you think you would not be into Kata, perhaps Karate is not for you. Not being funny, why don't you try kickboxing?

That said, I have worked out with Wado-Ryu people and they are good folks and it seems like a solid system even if I don't agree with all of the methodologies I've heard from them.

Can I ask Wastelander, what methodologies didn't you agree with?

Wado-ryu and Kyokushin are both Okinawan styles...

Hi Student4life, actually they are both "non-okinawan" karate. Sojobo

SOLID POST

I practiced both Wado and Ashihara Karate (an Offspring of Kyokushin) I can say Wado definately is one of the best forms of Karate and its ethos can take a lifetime to understand. Wado taught me more about my Ashihara Karate than My Ashihara Sensei did, if you understand where I am coming from. Kyokushin is definately a fighting style of Karate but it takes different ethos into the kata which are the 90% practiced by Wado, ShotoKan and Goju Ryu anyway

If Kata is an issue then as stated above Kickboxing/Muay Thai would be a better option.

[RW]

I also noticed many people seem to look down on wado-ryu except the people practicing it, no idea why.

Who looks down their nose at Wado? Ask any serious practitioner of Karate (regardless of style) what they think of Wado and I doubt they would look down their nose at it.

As I wrote earlier in the post I really want full contact sparring, and I'm not into kata stuff at all.

If you think you would not be into Kata, perhaps Karate is not for you. Not being funny, why don't you try kickboxing?

That said, I have worked out with Wado-Ryu people and they are good folks and it seems like a solid system even if I don't agree with all of the methodologies I've heard from them.

Can I ask Wastelander, what methodologies didn't you agree with?

Wado-ryu and Kyokushin are both Okinawan styles...

Hi Student4life, actually they are both "non-okinawan" karate. Sojobo

SOLID POST

I practiced both Wado and Ashihara Karate (an Offspring of Kyokushin) I can say Wado definately is one of the best forms of Karate and its ethos can take a lifetime to understand. Wado taught me more about my Ashihara Karate than My Ashihara Sensei did, if you understand where I am coming from. Kyokushin is definately a fighting style of Karate but it takes different ethos into the kata which are the 90% practiced by Wado, ShotoKan and Goju Ryu anyway

If Kata is an issue then as stated above Kickboxing/Muay Thai would be a better option.

Do you think that kata could be holding karate back?

I mean yes, I know about bunkai and "that chudan uke followed by a gedan barai is actually a joint lock to break an elbow and then throw the opponent" kind of applications, and the fact that they help perfecting technique and footwork... for conditioning.

While the karateka is doing that, the kickboxer is actually kicking a bag or someone else, getting technique/footwork applied to sparring,dare I say in a more direct manner than imagining and the ocassional bunkai.

I'm not saying it's this way, I'm looking for your opinions