The Fanboydom of Eastern Philosophy in Martial Arts

[Drew]

I want to discuss this strange obsession that many martial artists seem to have with eastern philosophy.

Now, I don't have anything against this, I am just rather confused as to why so many westerners, whether they practice a martial art that has eastern roots like karate, or one with western roots like boxing, seem to be so drawn to philosophers like Confucius or Sun Tzu.

Seriously, there are a lot of different military tacticians and philosophers out there, many of them with some really good things to say about their chosen subjects. Napoleon Bonaparte was one of the best tacticians in recorded history, and yet I have never read or heard of one martial artist studying his writings for some hidden knowledge applicable to their endeavors in life.

The Book of Five Rings is touted as one of the best out their for sword fighting. And yet the book entitled "Paradoxes of Defence," written by Englishman George Silver goes almost completely unrecognized, despite being in English and covering a very broad spectrum of weapons and their proper use. Having made a conscious effort to find it in any of the multitude of libraries I have visited, I have only grasped success once. Yet I have found several copies of The Book of Five Rings in each of these libraries.

Heck, Rembrandt and Musashi even shared many of the same painting philosophies (brush economy, just doing it instead of obsessing.) Musashi just happens to also have been a swordsman.

Now, I realize not everyone will think this is so. I'm sure you can think up plenty of famous fighters or martial artists or what have you that study great minds from the west. What I am saying is that it seems more focus on great minds of the east.

The question I want to pose to you folks is this: Have you had the same experience as me? Do you feel that western sciences and arts in general have been shunned by the bulk of the martial arts community? If so, why? If you disagree, how come?

[MasterPain]

I think the phrase "hidden knowledge" sums it up. People are looking for something that transcends the basic human experience, and thus look to "other" cultures after not finding it in their own. Now, if we accept the basic human experience as concrete and real and complete, then all cultures may offer some deeper understanding of our nature. Then there is no "secret hidden ultimate truth", but rather different subjective perspectives on our objective existence.

Then again, I'm just a seamless gutter installer from Podunk. Maybe you should ask a swami from the mystical East.

[Drew]

I think the phrase "hidden knowledge" sums it up. People are looking for something that transcends the basic human experience, and thus look to "other" cultures after not finding it in their own. Now, if we accept the basic human experience as concrete and real and complete, then all cultures may offer some deeper understanding of our nature. Then there is no "secret hidden ultimate truth", but rather different subjective perspectives on our objective existence.

Then again, I'm just a seamless gutter installer from Podunk. Maybe you should ask a swami from the mystical East.

As eloquently put as always MP, thank you for your response.

[bushido_man96]

And yet the book entitled "Paradoxes of Defence," written by Englishman George Silver goes almost completely unrecognized, despite being in English and covering a very broad spectrum of weapons and their proper use.

First off, FANTASTIC book here. And Silver was practically a European contemporary of Musashi. His righting is great stuff.

As to your initial question, I think it is basically linked to the idea of people latching onto a strange, mysterious idea, and latching onto it, studying it, and they begin to like it, and adhere to it.

I don't have a problem with this, either. Different strokes for different folks. What I do take issue with is when those who have become accustomed to some of these eastern ways try to tout them as being better methods or ideologies than our western ways. Then I tend to take issue with it. The simplest example I can provide of this is when I hear those who study eastern MA styles argue that styles such as Boxing and Wrestling are not MA styles at all. Its that idea that MAs only come from the east, and what everyone else is doing is just "sport" or "fighting." This is a subject that I will usually say my piece on, and be glad to argue the points with whomever wishes to debate it.

[sojobo]

A FB acquaintance of mine (and a very senior Budoka based in the US) posted this short vid.

He introduced it by saying that he always struggled to explain to his friends and other non JMA's as to why he was fascinated with the traditional Budo of ancient Japan.

Here was his answer:

sojobo

ps Toby... if you ever read this, sorry for knicking your stuff.

sojobo

[Drew]

Thanks Sojobo, I enjoyed that video. The tone of that whole meeting was similar to a lot of reenactments and big ARMA gatherings. But what was up with the flute music?

[sensei8]

I want to discuss this strange obsession that many martial artists seem to have with eastern philosophy.

I've no deep interest in eastern philosophy as it might pertain to the martial arts. I've done some reading on eastern philosophy as more of a curiosity than as a requirement, and yes, I've read many of the books already mentioned in this thread, and I enjoyed them. Neither of them defined me or my martial arts training; that has always been reserved for my Dai-Soke as well as myself.

I'd concur with the OP that many martial artists MIGHT be obsessed with eastern philosophy, but what I've noticed is that it's about fifty-fifty as to whether the "obsession" is based on a personal interest or a martial arts interest.

Either way, I believe that eastern philosophy has its merits both in and out of the martial arts, but, imho, it's quite limited as to its validity within ones martial arts training. Studying eastern philosophy: Can it help one to better defend themselves on the street? No. Realistic effective training trumps eastern philosophy....imho.

[andym]

Going completely off topic, sojobo, thanks for your friend video. I've never seen such well made stuff for years. Thanks to yourself and 'openmind'. Great work.

[sperki]

It seems like there is the matter of what came first: interest in Japanese / Eastern MA's, or interest in Eastern culture in general. I suspect that a lot of people are interested in eastern arts or culture and that leads them to martial arts in the first place. This is especially true for people that start MA's in high school or later.

[sojobo]

Going completely off topic, sojobo, thanks for your friend video. I've never seen such well made stuff for years. Thanks to yourself and 'openmind'. Great work.

No problem.

"Empty Mind Films" have several martial arts vids on their YT channel. All very well made.

http://www.youtube.com/user/emptymindfilms

Sojobo