Bowing: To What/Whom?

[sensei8]

For any style of the Martial Arts that utilizes the practice of bowing, it's a vital part of any training/learning session/class. This is whom this topic/thread is aimed at, and not to the styles of the Martial Arts that don't practice bowing.

We bow in the beginning of class. We bow at the end of the class. We bow to our seniors. We bow at the beginning of Kata/Kumite. We bow at the end of Kata/Kumite. We bow at the beginning of drills. We bow at the end of drills. We bow to judges. We bow to our Sensei/Chief Instructor. We bow often during a testing cycle. We bow often during ceremonies. We bow in our getting ups and in our sitting downs.

What are we bowing to?

Who are we bowing to?

Are we bowing to the person?

 

Are we bowing to the rank?

Are we bowing to an object?

I bow to the rank WHENEVER it's called for!! I bow to the person WHENEVER it's called for!! Depending on the context as well as the content of the moment; that's what/who I bow to.

I don't have to like and/or respect the practitioner, but I will respect, and I do respect the rank...providing the context/content of the moment!!

Kohai's bow to Sempais and Sempais bow to Sensei's and Sensei's bow to Chief Instructors and Chief Instructors bow to Kancho and Kancho bows to Kaicho and Kaicho bows to a Soke type...AND everyone bows to each other as a sign of respect and/or because it's just what one does.

[bushido_man96]

We bow mainly out of respect, and according to the Eastern tradition that TKD comes from. At tournaments and testings, bowing is definitely in respect to higher ranks, for sure.

[DWx]

Great post Bob

I bow to the person and to their rank as a sign of respect for them, for the style, for what we're about to do..

I do think it can sometimes be a little OTT though. I remember being on a seminar with a high ranking Korean master and he found it quite funny how often we were bowing and told us to cut it out!

[sojobo]

In Wado / Karate, we bow out of respect and humility.

At the beginning and end of class we all bow to the instructor (Sensei Ni Rei), then the students (not the Sensei) all bow to one and other (Otaga Ni Rei). This is usually done in seiza.

It is also a mark of gratitude to both the instructor(s) and the dojo.

At the beginning and at the end of any pair work / Kumite - we bow to your opponent - again this is a mark of respect. These are tachi-rei (standing bows).

We also bow when entering and leaving the dojo for the same reasons, but that’s it - I think over-bowing is all too familiar these days. There is no need imo.

In my Koryu Bujutsu group we also bow to the “Kamidana” (a small shrine). This is usually done on the command: “Shinsei Ni Rei” (lit. bow to the gods) and it is accompanied with a two claps of the hand.

Prior to commencing training with the sword we bow to it (“torei”). Again there is a zarei and tachi-rei versions. Always done with the blade facing either upward or toward you.

So, we do bow to people, for the reasons noted above, but we also bow to spirits and our swords.

Sojobo

[evergrey]

Most people, I bow to out of respect for them, or affection for them. There are some that I do not like personally, to whom I bow out of respect for their rank and for protocol. Also, in my dojo, there is a bow where we are bowing to all, INCLUDING ourselves!

OSU!

[JohnASE]

This might be off topic, and I hope it doesn't violate TOS, but I was wondering what you all thought.

I have a friend who has been doing karate for many years now. When he first joined, he was concerned about his Christian faith and bowing. It's been a while since we talked about this, but I believe his concern was about bowing being a form of worship. Idolatry? I think he specifically mentioned bowing to photos, shrines or ancestors, or when entering the dojo as being a problem. I don't remember exactly.

For some people, I suppose there is a spiritual component to martial arts that could contradict their faiths, but I told my friend that for many, bowing is like saluting. People, generally, have no problem with members of the military saluting each other or people saluting the flag or pledging allegiance to it.

I never asked him how he finally worked it out, but he's still in karate seven or eight years later.

Have any of you had similar issues with bowing?

[sojobo]

There are no deities in martial arts - only metaphors.

Sojobo

[yamesu]

We bow to those who have walked the path before us, and are willing to pass their knowledge on to us so we can learn.

Is it respect? Yes it is.

[MasterPain]

For any style of the Martial Arts that utilizes the practice of bowing, it's a vital part of any training/learning session/class. This is whom this topic/thread is aimed at, and not to the styles of the Martial Arts that don't practice bowing.

Someone said that Karate begins and ends with Rei. But Rei is a concrete verb and an abstract noun. A bow and respect, respectively. Which was the main meaning intended? "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" is in play, and etiquette should be followed according to the dojo rules. But I believe the noun was the real meaning here, and the verb is only a sign of the noun. I bow onto the floor, generally. Hand me a sword, I bow. Give me a stick and I salute with it before I put it upside yo head. Lay out mats and I'll slap hands before grappling. I touch gloves before boxing. In a hybrid art, I try to observe the signs of respect from the sources of our material, not in a formal manner, but in a manner of beginning and ending with Rei, whether it be a bow, a handshake, glove touch, salute or even a hug after a beatfest.

[Dobbersky]

What are we bowing to? We're bowing to the ethos of what is a sub-culture, as the martial arts we study are predominately of Asian Origin, Bowing is something that is a part of everyday life, so its the same as Saluting in the Armed Forces or Shaking someones hand etc

Who are we bowing to? To each other as a mark of respect!

Are we bowing to the person? Yes, Respect is earned not dictated

Are we bowing to the rank? Yes, but out of respect for our seniors

Are we bowing to an object? No, never, I am a Christian and bowing to an object is not for me to do. I know that some styles like Aikido bow to a Photo of "O Sensei" but this to me is just honouring a "Passed" teacher