Nice BJJ in a LE setting

[sensei8]

Sorry Alex, I didn't mean for the thread to make the turn(s) it made from my one question.

[tallgeese]

No worries sensei8! Everyone's got a slightly different view on this and that's fine.

Private security is held to the same use of force standards as non-sworn, non-LE personnel. The can't use any force not considered reasonable. This is largely the same as LE;however, in most states there is a clause that mandates retreat from using force when possible for non-LE's (not all, but many). LE's are not held to this restriction and face no duty to retreat. It's the most prevalent difference in UoF regulations between the two groups. Add that LE usually has access and authorization to use weapons not generally accessible or legal for non-sworn to use. Still, security using more force than generally accepted as reasonable will get them jammed up. As will attempting to detain beyond their limits of authority. This is usually what I see them get hemmed in on.

That said, I stand by my position that moving the bad guy to unconsciousness THEN cuffing him is an excellent tactic.

[pittbullJudoka]

The only problem I see with the entire situation is that if this video was used in court is the security officer asked the suspect if he wanted to go to sleep before the choke was applied. I see the force fitting the situation. Noone was hurt so the out come was good.

[tallgeese]

And on that note, you hit upon a very true statement. Often, we make our problems, and create loopholes for attorneys to exploit, from our own lack of common sense when it comes to keeping our mouths shut.

It's much easier to articulate the reasonableness of an action in a dynamic and fluid environment with unknown hazards if you're not talking trash about putting the suspect to sleep a few seconds before he takes a nap.

[pittbullJudoka]

I'm sure it was in the heat of the moment but in his position he needs to choose his words a little more carefull next time. If he had said something to the effect of "stop resitting" it wouldn't appear as bad if taken before a jury and judge.

[bushido_man96]

I find it interesting that it's repeatedly stated that the security officer has "limited" power ? Having worked security, and trained L.E./Security(for many years) a Security officer (in many ways) has greater flexibility in how/what form their response may be to a given situation. At least in Missouri, a security officer (any, private or corporate) can use what ever level of response they feel necessary to control and/or remove an individual from a premises that they have authority in/over. They can (legally) beat you into a blood puddle if they feel “threatened” (enough) to do so. An officer can't, they are restricted by a much greater list of constraints imposed by department policy. At first this sounds “unfair” (though not in my opinion), a police officer is also allowed to carry a firearm (and use it with greater freedom than any “security guard”).

I didn't really feel the “blackout” was necessary (he actually “waved” the other officer off when he attempted to cuff the guy), for some reason, he (evidently) felt that he had to have the suspect “out” before he rolled him over (which was where he should have been placed to begin with) to “hand-cuff” him.

Though this kid “sloughed” his way through it (and eventually accomplished his goal), his control and submission methods (IMO) were executed “sloppily” and his (non-existent) “back-up” didn't provide any manner of effective assistance.

A few things to offer. 1, yes, LEO's get to carry guns, but we don't get to use them for every scenario. 2, after the guy had the suspect locked up, I'm not sure what assistance his partner could have offered that wouldn't have been more of a hinderance to him.

[shujika]

A few things to offer. 1, yes, LEO's get to carry guns, but we don't get to use them for every scenario.

no kiddin', LOL

2, after the guy had the suspect locked up, I'm not sure what assistance his partner could have offered that wouldn't have been more of a hinderance to him.

And "that's" my point, they were "security guards" (not an L.E. Officers) and didn't have adequate training (IMO).

[tallgeese]

I think the dude doing the choking was probably trained better in that particular tactic (and probably interpersonal conflict control) than most cops.

[shujika]

I think the dude doing the choking was probably trained better in that particular tactic (and probably interpersonal conflict control) than most cops.

LOL on that I would agree!