sojobo Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 I truly take no marked notice about how Oyama or anybody sits and for whatever their reason(s) may or may not be. In that, I've no theory to offer as to why Oyama sat the way he did...sorry Ev! I think you've already come up with one of the most plausible theories: As a karateka forever, I understand the importance of the seiza position, but as the OP wonders about Oyama's seiza...Did anybody think that Oyama was just plainly sitting without any concern of anybody reading anything into it? Sojobo I know violence isn't the answer... I got it wrong on purpose!!!http://www.karatedo.co.jp/wado/w_eng/e_index.htm
bushido_man96 Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 I don't train in Karate, but I have trained in Aikido, which uses seiza, and at advanced ranks, has defenses performed from seiza position. They are generally referred to as "Idori" techniques. This is my Daito-ryu instructors group performing it at an embu:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBk9wK6fh44Love the scenery there. Awesome place to train.They appear to be very comfortable moving that way. I'm sure it comes with some time, too. Thanks for sharing it. https://www.haysgym.comhttp://www.sunyis.com/https://www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
evergrey Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 OSU,Haha, after I asked around all over the place, I told my Shihan that it seemed that he didn't actually tell anyone. Not anyone I could get a hold of, not even his last uchi deshi, not even his translator of many years. My Shihan, at the end of class when we were all lined up, told us that he himself asked Sosai Oyama why he changed the seiza position. Oyama didn't tell him. He said he made the mistake of asking again. He said that the result of asking again was something he didn't like emotionally or physically. So he went to his own instructor, who said "Go ask Oyama." He said that then he got the picture and didn't ask again.His point was to not constantly question one's instructors or babble away, but to keep quiet, train, and learn. Heh.OSU! http://kyokushinchick.blogspot.com/"If you can fatally judo-chop a bull, you can sit however you want." -MasterPain, on why Mas Oyama had Kyokushin karateka sit in seiza with their clenched fists on their thighs.
yamesu Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Osu Evergrey,Ive never questioned Seiza in Kyokushin, but did a long time ago question other parts of technique ect. The response is rarely a plesant one.The most recent, I asked why Sanchin Kata does not end up in the same place (following embu) like all other kata. The response I got was "there is a reason for that"... and no further explanation. Haha! I dont want to blindly follow, and I think that being able to think freely is a paramount trait, however, sometimes it is worth putting faith in those who have significantly more experience in "Walking The Path" than I do Osu. "We did not inherit this earth from our parents. We are borrowing it from our children."
evergrey Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 OSU! I think there is one other kata my dojo does that doesn't end in the same place as the others... and perhaps some "advanced" kata where one steps forward instead of back at the end, but my dojo's version of Kyokushin katas can be a bit different. It has something to do with when they were taught and worked out with Sosai, which was way way way back in the early years, some before Kyokushin was even founded, heh!The truth is, I always thirst for knowledge, not just "what" and "how" but also "why." This gets me in trouble sometimes, haha! But I am ever true to my nature anyway. If I can't find out one way, I'll endeavor to find out another!I'm really glad my instructors and other Kyokushin friends tolerate my incessant inquisitiveness. My Shihan has called me a thorn in his side. And enjoyable. So one day I said to him, "well, I'm glad I'm an enjoyable thorn in your side!"He paused a moment and said "that's... a pretty accurate way of putting it."LOL!OSU! http://kyokushinchick.blogspot.com/"If you can fatally judo-chop a bull, you can sit however you want." -MasterPain, on why Mas Oyama had Kyokushin karateka sit in seiza with their clenched fists on their thighs.
sojobo Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Many of the original Okinawan kata do not start and finish on the same spot.It was a modern adaptation by Shotokan’s Funakoshi / Nakayama etc., in that they cropped and altered the embusen of the originals – to tidy them up!!Sojobo I know violence isn't the answer... I got it wrong on purpose!!!http://www.karatedo.co.jp/wado/w_eng/e_index.htm
deckerdude Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Just my two penneth worth here, but i'm no expert!! It seems, (to me at any rate) that Mas Oyama is sitting for a photo shoot, rather than the Sosai above him, who actually LOOKS like he is sitting in the Seiza position. Agreed Bushido_man96, ALWAYS i get the cramps when in Seiza, never fails! ''Board's..........don't hit back'' The late and very great Bruce Lee, in the movie Enter The Dragon.
evergrey Posted January 7, 2012 Author Posted January 7, 2012 OSU, Sosai was quite elderly when photos of him in a folding chair instead of seiza started to appear. With how my knees are already, I sure don't blame him for choosing to do that in the twilight years of his life.I've heard that kata was not Oyama's strong suit at all, but he felt it was important, and still made changes to the bunkai. Of course, everyone's top instructors claim that they train the most true, pure Kyokushin kata. Heh! I know some that my school does are a bit different from what a lot of other schools do, but the bunkai behind them makes sense to me, so... *shrugs*I love kata for a number of reasons, but when it comes to Kyokushin, solid kihon and kumite are more important to me.OSU http://kyokushinchick.blogspot.com/"If you can fatally judo-chop a bull, you can sit however you want." -MasterPain, on why Mas Oyama had Kyokushin karateka sit in seiza with their clenched fists on their thighs.
sensei8 Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 OSU, Sosai was quite elderly when photos of him in a folding chair instead of seiza started to appear. With how my knees are already, I sure don't blame him for choosing to do that in the twilight years of his life.I've heard that kata was not Oyama's strong suit at all, but he felt it was important, and still made changes to the bunkai. Of course, everyone's top instructors claim that they train the most true, pure Kyokushin kata. Heh! I know some that my school does are a bit different from what a lot of other schools do, but the bunkai behind them makes sense to me, so... *shrugs*I love kata for a number of reasons, but when it comes to Kyokushin, solid kihon and kumite are more important to me.OSUEv,You're probably already guessing what I'm about to say...The three K's cannot stand separate and away. There must be cohesiveness of all three...at all the time. Kihon can't survive on its own. Kata can't survive on its own. Kumite can't survive on its own. Each of the three K's are dependent on each of the others, otherwise, one area will suffer due to the lack of another, and when one of the three K's suffers due to lack of training equally, then the karateka/practitioner suffers in its whole.Imagine the stability of a three legged chair that's missing only one of its legs...unstable across the board!!Train equally in the three K's...it would be my advise to any fellow karateka. **Proof is on the floor!!!
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