Mas Oyama's seiza position

[sojobo]

I've done shikko in Aikido class. I'm pretty decent at that. I can do without seiza, though.

Do you think Karate would be better without it?

If so, I'd like to understand your reasoning why.

Sojobo

I do, because I think that there are more important positions to develop skills from than being on the knees. I also think that just because it was a popular way to sit in the days of feudal Japan, doesn't necessarily lend itself to being meaningful in our current day and age.

I've real all you've said about it developing posture and what not, but in using some of tallgeese's examples of other styles that don't train it, I don't think it adds anything of value that can't be learned by observing proper posture in other combative stances and positions.

Interesting.

If you trained in Karate you may have different views. Something like seiza is very difficult to appreciate in isolation.

Thanks for your reply.

Sojobo

[Dobbersky]

I don't use Sieza in my school, This is a Japanese Cultural ethos.

There are quite a lot of techniques in traditional Karate like Shotokan, Wado Ryu and others that have techniques from Seiza, how would these work in European settings where everyone is sat around tables etc on chairs?

[sojobo]

I don't use Sieza in my school, This is a Japanese Cultural ethos.

There are quite a lot of techniques in traditional Karate like Shotokan, Wado Ryu and others that have techniques from Seiza, how would these work in European settings where everyone is sat around tables etc on chairs?

Out of interest, do you train in a Karate-gi?

Sojobo

[Dobbersky]

I don't use Sieza in my school, This is a Japanese Cultural ethos.

There are quite a lot of techniques in traditional Karate like Shotokan, Wado Ryu and others that have techniques from Seiza, how would these work in European settings where everyone is sat around tables etc on chairs?

Out of interest, do you train in a Karate-gi?

Sojobo

Good question Sojobo!

I do train in a Gi and it is a White Gi not a Black (or other Colour) Gi or one of these "Freestyle" Gi's that are on the market.

My reason is that the techniques we practice a Gi is perfect to take the "punishment" that we give them

We also "OSU" a lot too, but that is because I am from an Ashihara Karate background

[sojobo]

I don't use Sieza in my school, This is a Japanese Cultural ethos.

There are quite a lot of techniques in traditional Karate like Shotokan, Wado Ryu and others that have techniques from Seiza, how would these work in European settings where everyone is sat around tables etc on chairs?

Out of interest, do you train in a Karate-gi?

Sojobo

Good question Sojobo!

I do train in a Gi and it is a White Gi not a Black (or other Colour) Gi or one of these "Freestyle" Gi's that are on the market.

My reason is that the techniques we practice a Gi is perfect to take the "punishment" that we give them

And.. I guess you are unlikely to be wearing your gi outside the dojo etc - where you could require your self defense skills?

Point is, seiza is no more a cultural ethos than a Karate-gi.

Seems people are happy to use those quite a bit still... especially with a spangly black belt.

Sojobo

[Dobbersky]

............

Good question Sojobo!

I do train in a Gi and it is a White Gi not a Black (or other Colour) Gi or one of these "Freestyle" Gi's that are on the market.

My reason is that the techniques we practice a Gi is perfect to take the "punishment" that we give them

And.. I guess you are unlikely to be wearing your gi outside the dojo etc - where you could require your self defense skills?

Point is, seiza is no more a cultural ethos than a Karate-gi.

Seems people are happy to use those quite a bit still... especially with a spangly black belt.

Sojobo

Point taken but how does Seiza and the Seiza Waza come into play for a modern "western" world? Seiza is usually accompanied by Motsu - to a Christian or Muslim any meditation must be on the word of God only!

I've visited many schools and more and more are "letting go" of seiza and just doing a standing bow instead.

[sensei8]

I truly take no marked notice about how Oyama or anybody sits and for whatever their reason(s) may or may not be. In that, I've no theory to offer as to why Oyama sat the way he did...sorry Ev!

[sojobo]

Point taken but how does Seiza and the Seiza Waza come into play for a modern "western" world? Seiza is usually accompanied by Motsu - to a Christian or Muslim any meditation must be on the word of God only!

I've visited many schools and more and more are "letting go" of seiza and just doing a standing bow instead.

Mokuso?

Yes, that is part and parcel.

Nothing to do with god.

Sojobo

[bushido_man96]

I don't train in Karate, but I have trained in Aikido, which uses seiza, and at advanced ranks, has defenses performed from seiza position. I still don't care for it. Its uncomfortable, and places strain on my knees I really don't need. I just don't care for it. If some do, that's fine. Its just not for me.

[sojobo]

I don't train in Karate, but I have trained in Aikido, which uses seiza, and at advanced ranks, has defenses performed from seiza position.

They are generally referred to as "Idori" techniques. This is my Daito-ryu instructors group performing it at an embu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBk9wK6fh44

I still don't care for it. Its uncomfortable, and places strain on my knees I really don't need. I just don't care for it. If some do, that's fine. Its just not for me.

And that's fine - it isn't for everyone.

Hope you are enjoying the holidays.

Sojobo