Appropriate Age and/or Rank

[Montana]

I think if someone is old enough to be seriously studying the MAs, then age, rank, etc shouldn't be a concern. Start a bo kata the same day they start white belt form. I don't think that weapons should be retained soley as "advanced studies" in the Martial Arts. Weapons and empty hand should merge seemlessly.

I disagree. Weapons and their techniques, at least in my system, are an extension of the empty hand techniques. Competency is needed in the karate aspect prior to learned the kobudo aspects.

[bushido_man96]

I think if someone is old enough to be seriously studying the MAs, then age, rank, etc shouldn't be a concern. Start a bo kata the same day they start white belt form. I don't think that weapons should be retained soley as "advanced studies" in the Martial Arts. Weapons and empty hand should merge seemlessly.

I disagree. Weapons and their techniques, at least in my system, are an extension of the empty hand techniques. Competency is needed in the karate aspect prior to learned the kobudo aspects.

I've seen other systems where kobudo and the empty-hand are separate entities. I don't think bo techniques would be terribly reliant on the empty hand techniques of any style, and could therefore be learned alongside without any major setbacks.

[Harlan]

And here we have the crux of the divide: either kobudo is a seperate study that merges with empty hand at some point (or not...depends)...or kobudo as a slave to an empty hand system.

I believe that when kobudo is taught with the mental construct of it being an extension of one's 'primary' art, that at some point one will have to 'unlearn' in order to master it.

[bushido_man96]

My thing is that in the past, it wasn't a requirement to a master of empty hand to be a master of weapon. Troops learned to fight with weapons because that was the primary mode of attack on the field of battle; not empty hand. Therefore, although being important, empty hand was not necessarily a focus. Medieval European systems would teach both as well, but they could be learned at the exclusion of each other.

[vantheman]

I serve as an assistant instructor in my dojo so I feel I have enough information to answer on behalf of it. I would allow a child to begin weapon training no earlier than around 9 years old, and only if you can trust that student's self control. In my school, one add'l form beyond those required for black belt must be preformed at the test, and that form is more often than not a weapon. Given this, I believe that weapon training should begin before than. I would assume that after the student is promoted to Blue Belt (5 belt in my organization, plus or minus 2 years) they COULD begin training with weapons. Unless they wish to use the weapon for demonstration purposes, they probably do not need to start until 3rd Degree Brown belt (the first of three degrees). While I do not think there is an established Rank necessary to start teaching weapons (in my dojo), I have not seen anyone lower than Black Belt teaching them. This in not my belief or argument, but what my Sensei does.

-VTM

[Montana]

in Shorin Ryu, Kobudo is a totally seperate art and has it's own rank. You can have a Yandan black belt in karate, and a Nidan black belt in kobudo.

[sensei8]

in Shorin Ryu, Kobudo is a totally seperate art and has it's own rank. You can have a Yandan black belt in karate, and a Nidan black belt in kobudo.

My Shindokan Karate-do Hachidan came 15 years before my Shindokan Kobudo Hachidan did.

[traffic142]

I think that a student, regardless of the age needs a firm foundation in empty hand Kata. I would suggest that maybe after several kata's have been learned. We learn our first kata for yellow belt, and introduce the first bo kata at purple, just prior to brown. I feel that you could begin with just bo basics first and not just a kata.

I think some folks forget the basics of a weapon and jump rigth into kata. You would not do that with empty hands would you?

[Harlan]

Actually, yes. I would. I don't see any reason to hold back, and kata is from day one. Weapons and empty hand.

[vantheman]

I think that a student, regardless of the age needs a firm foundation in empty hand Kata. I would suggest that maybe after several kata's have been learned. We learn our first kata for yellow belt, and introduce the first bo kata at purple, just prior to brown. I feel that you could begin with just bo basics first and not just a kata.

I think some folks forget the basics of a weapon and jump rigth into kata. You would not do that with empty hands would you?

I would also add that some concepts you would see (at least in empty hand kata) can apply to weapon katas