Lineage

[bushido_man96]

GM Chae Sun Yi, Master Scott Biskie, Me. I'm not sure who taught our GM; I think he was WTF before he branched off on his own, so I am unsure.

My ATA lineage is a bit tougher, but if I take some time to look back at it, I can come up with something on it.

[Kuma]

My head instructor was a student of Shigeru Oyama and later Mas Oyama, so you really can't get any closer to the source of Kyokushin than that.

[kansascityshuffle]

I urge all of you to do some fact checking on lineage. No, I'm not calling your instructor, or instructor's instructor a liar, neither.

What I'm saying is a lot of facts get mixed up, forgot, and some people stray from what was originally taught and really add their own "flavor" that gets passed on, and the same thing happens again.

I've seen this happen in many different styles of karate, and I'm sure any other style is no different on what I'm describing.

Often times some very fabricated romantic stories are told about some founders of martial arts. I don't necessarily think that the founder themselves made these stories up but that they had students that got carried away and these urban legends took on a life of their own.

Not only do I urge you to fact check to verify, but you'll also learn a few things you didn't know before hand. It's a win-win situation..no direspect meant to any of you. I've learned this over the years by being friends with people that have their history wrong about their own lineage...it's not exactly their fault neither, their instructor(s) told them some misinformation and it's a snowball effect from there.

[MasterPain]

How do you go about fact checking, apart from asking the oldest surviving person in the line?

[IcemanSK]

Funakoshi Gichin-> Lee, Won Kuk-> Uhm, Woon Kyu-> Park, Hae Man-> Edward Sell-> Me

My lineage in Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan

[ps1]

I urge all of you to do some fact checking on lineage. No, I'm not calling your instructor, or instructor's instructor a liar, neither.

What I'm saying is a lot of facts get mixed up, forgot, and some people stray from what was originally taught and really add their own "flavor" that gets passed on, and the same thing happens again.

I've seen this happen in many different styles of karate, and I'm sure any other style is no different on what I'm describing.

Often times some very fabricated romantic stories are told about some founders of martial arts. I don't necessarily think that the founder themselves made these stories up but that they had students that got carried away and these urban legends took on a life of their own.

Not only do I urge you to fact check to verify, but you'll also learn a few things you didn't know before hand. It's a win-win situation..no direspect meant to any of you. I've learned this over the years by being friends with people that have their history wrong about their own lineage...it's not exactly their fault neither, their instructor(s) told them some misinformation and it's a snowball effect from there.

Good advice.

But you forgot to put your own lineage.

[Montana]

How do you go about fact checking, apart from asking the oldest surviving person in the line?

Photos, authentic certificates, movies/videos, confirmation from verified other sensei that are their peers, etc

[sensei8]

Satunuku "Tode" Sakugawa (1733 - 1815)

Sokon "Bushi" Matsumura (1797 - 1889)

Anko Itosu (1830 - 1915)

Shigekazu Ishikawa (1864 - 1959) (Shuri-te)

Choshu Saitou (1865 - 1962) (Okinawa-te*) (This is the father of Soke Saitou) (*Choshu Saitou's Okinawa-te Sensei is unknown)

Fuyuhiko Saitou (1917 - 2008) (Shindokan founder; Shindokan was founded in 1950)

Yoshinobu Takahashi (1932 - 2010) (Dai-Soke; and the first student of Soke Saitou)

Me

[sensei8]

How do you go about fact checking, apart from asking the oldest surviving person in the line?

Great question. Unfortunately, my lineage is just that for the most part. Soke Saitou and Dai-Soke Takahashi are the only ones within our lineage that I handled. By handled, I mean that I was trained by them, I had an intimate relationship with both of them before they passed away. Anyone in our lineage above Soke Saitou I never meet or anything. So I have to believe what I was told.

The only other "proof" we have can be found in our Shindokan Densho, Hand Scrolls, and By-Laws. We've quite a lot of photos of Soke and Dai-Soke, but of anyone above Soke Saitou in lineage, well, we've no album of each of them, maybe one photo, if that.

[MasterPain]

Satunuku "Tode" Sakugawa (1733 - 1815)

Sokon "Bushi" Matsumura (1797 - 1889)

Anko Itosu (1830 - 1915)

Shigekazu Ishikawa (1864 - 1959) (Shuri-te)

Choshu Saitou (1865 - 1962) (Okinawa-te*) (This is the father of Soke Saitou) (*Choshu Saitou's Okinawa-te Sensei is unknown)

Fuyuhiko Saitou (1917 - 2008) (Shindokan founder; Shindokan was founded in 1950)

Yoshinobu Takahashi (1932 - 2010) (Dai-Soke; and the first student of Soke Saitou)

Me

Those guys all lived to be a good age, even the ones before modern medicine. You all must be doing something right.