what to do against a "leaner"

[Throwdown0850]

Last Friday night during some randori I was coupled with a"leaner". By that I mean he was leaning over almost excessively why trying get grip. I couldn't get any thing on him except for a single leg/ ko ouchi gari combination and a uchi-makikomi. Other than that I couldn't do anything. Its like his legs were brick man lol. I have sparred this type before but not this bad. Any judoka/bjj players experience this? Any tips?

Edited October 25, 2011 by Throwdown0850

[MasterPain]

I'd kick him, but that's not what you're looking for.

Leaning is a stalling tactic, and I believe doing this for any amount of time costs you points in judo competition. It's hard to get anything on the guy, but he also can't mount any offense without straightening up. He's hurting his own training by not taking the risk and attacking. I'd just explain that to him.

[ShoriKid]

Is he keeping his hips so far out that you can't work anything? If so, we worked on a simple set up during a seminar a few months back. We worked a belt grip from the side, slid it toward the front and then stepped back with the foot opposite the grip. It pulled them up right and close and let use work a sweep or a leg pick to a take down/sweep.

[tallgeese]

Good advice all around.

Another consideration is what you're training for. Judo had some new rules that will limit how to deal with this. Self defense training, as MP pointed out will have certain answers.

From a BJJ perspective here would be my hat in the ring:

Pummel for double under hooks ( I know- easier said that done, but that just gives you an excuse to train) and then work a level change to double or single. I'm assuming that what you're talking about working already is a standing single, the easiest way to get the leg from a leaner. A level change double will allow you to run the pipe or pick him up (no sprawl from that). A level change single will allow you to really lift and own the leg he gives you. Either also has the benefit of easily transitioning to a body lock take down. It's elementary, but don't forget it. Too many people do and it makes them vulnerable. Not to mention, a good body lock is hard to defend.

It's often said that there is no secret to BJJ. To a degree, that is true. If there were a secret, it would be the under hook. Most problems you'll encounter in grappling can be made better (not solved but made better) by the application of the under hook.

Leaners are also susceptible to getting their backs taken for body locks from there. Again, you'll need under hooks.

I'd also look at arm drab solutions depending on the grips. If your leaner is giving you the opportunity, why not get both his weapons across center and take back or a side body lock with lift. Can't get much better than that.

Lastly, and I'll take a beating for this but I'm willing, think about pulling guard. Yes, you go to your back. However, if leaning is the best he's got, and it's shutting you down then why not take the fight to a position where you can start an offense? Are you offensive from the lean pressure? If the answer is no (and it may or may not be depending on how well you can do the above or the other suggestions) then by all means get to a position where you can be offensive. IF your guard game is solid then you might have the opportunity here. Especially if he's unprepared to deal with it. Often, leaners tend to give too much away against a solid guard pull due to momentum.

Lastly, take all the suggestions you get here, or elsewhere, and try them. Who cares if it doesn't work out. It's training, that is what it is for. See what you can make work with some reps.

Let us know what you find.

[Throwdown0850]

Will do. I think I'm gonna pull guard. I'm gonna spam it too. Hopefully he will get the idea. I love underhooks.

[pittbullJudoka]

Try taking same side collar and sleeve grip. For example with your right hand reach under his left arm gripping the collar high as possible and grip the sleeve with you left hand. Pull the sleeve tight while pushing your hand in the collar up. the straighter you get arm the better. Dive through under your grips. Here a video with this throw, at the 45 sceonds, 1:15, 3:00, and3:25

[Wastelander]

Do you know uchi mata or tai otoshi? Tai otoshi will let you slip the throw in regardless of them leaning over, and you can do a modified uchi mata by stepping off to the side and dragging them over your leg horizontally instead of flipping them vertically. It's hard to explain, I'm afraid, but something to consider.

[sojobo]

Don't you just knee them in the face, or am I missing something?

Not a bjj guy obviously.

Sojobo

[Throwdown0850]

Don't you just knee them in the face, or am I missing something?

Not a bjj guy obviously.

Sojobo

No.. no knees to face. Its judo.

[Throwdown0850]

Try taking same side collar and sleeve grip. For example with your right hand reach under his left arm gripping the collar high as possible and grip the sleeve with you left hand. Pull the sleeve tight while pushing your hand in the collar up. the straighter you get arm the better. Dive through under your grips. Here a video with this throw, at the 45 sceonds, 1:15, 3:00, and3:25

Thanks for he vid man. It helped