Can you learn Martial Arts from internet?

[Dobbersky]

A teacher can say "Wait, turn your foot or you'll tear up your knees". A video assumes you did it right.

A teacher can say "You'll need to adjust your balance like so". A video can be played upside down.

A teacher can help you work through the body dynamics to get maximum power out of your body frame. A video can't see what you're doing.

A teacher can say "Well really the reason we keep our hand in this place that you're confused by is to deal with this counter here.." A video will never notice your confusion.

A teacher can immerse you in the traditions and lore necessary to comport yourself among others in your art. A video, if you're lucky, will give you a misleading and vague travelogue that will make no sense to anyone who wasn't there.

A teacher will tell you "That other teacher does it this other way because of reasons X and Y. We do THIS because of Z, which completely precludes us from X." A pile of videos will mongrelize your movement skills incoherently. None of the videos will explain the other videos.

A video, even many videos, is not, and will never be, equivalent to one teacher.

One hour with someone who understands the art decently well and can converse with you, ask questions, critique your movements, and physically make adjustments to your body position will do you more good than forty hours of instructional DVDs. And eighty hours of instructional DVD's is little better than forty hours.

If all you have is videos, you do what you can. But if all you have is videos, maybe you should be asking someone else at the Antarctic base or in your remote third world village to work out with you.

I spent time living in a somewhat rural part of Alaska, studying a pretty obscure art, and *I* was able to find someone who could teach me correctly. I had a small pile of instructional videos. Two hours with a guy who wasn't even an instructor - just a decently experienced student located in the nearest major city who I searched out and went looking for - and I ended up tossing most of them because I was beyond them. Those things are like saying that because you have someones' hastily scribbled shorthand outline notes that they use as a memory aid from a class, that you don't need to actually listen to the lecture.

Solid post!!!

[xo-karate]

A teacher can say "Wait, turn your foot or you'll tear up your knees". A video assumes you did it right.

A teacher can say "You'll need to adjust your balance like so". A video can be played upside down.

A teacher can help you work through the body dynamics to get maximum power out of your body frame. A video can't see what you're doing.

A teacher can say "Well really the reason we keep our hand in this place that you're confused by is to deal with this counter here.." A video will never notice your confusion.

A teacher can immerse you in the traditions and lore necessary to comport yourself among others in your art. A video, if you're lucky, will give you a misleading and vague travelogue that will make no sense to anyone who wasn't there.

A teacher will tell you "That other teacher does it this other way because of reasons X and Y. We do THIS because of Z, which completely precludes us from X." A pile of videos will mongrelize your movement skills incoherently. None of the videos will explain the other videos.

A video, even many videos, is not, and will never be, equivalent to one teacher.

One hour with someone who understands the art decently well and can converse with you, ask questions, critique your movements, and physically make adjustments to your body position will do you more good than forty hours of instructional DVDs. And eighty hours of instructional DVD's is little better than forty hours.

If all you have is videos, you do what you can. But if all you have is videos, maybe you should be asking someone else at the Antarctic base or in your remote third world village to work out with you.

I spent time living in a somewhat rural part of Alaska, studying a pretty obscure art, and *I* was able to find someone who could teach me correctly. I had a small pile of instructional videos. Two hours with a guy who wasn't even an instructor - just a decently experienced student located in the nearest major city who I searched out and went looking for - and I ended up tossing most of them because I was beyond them. Those things are like saying that because you have someones' hastily scribbled shorthand outline notes that they use as a memory aid from a class, that you don't need to actually listen to the lecture.

Solid post!!!

Dobbersku,

does this comment mean that you agree that internet is not a good media for learning martial arts?

Or does it mean that you cannot find good videos about techniques or history of martial arts?

If we agree that learning martial arts is not possible thru internet, what are we doing on this forum? Are you not learning anything? Do you not find any new idea or argument to think about?

What is so solid about that post? Fact that there are bad videos? Fact that video is only one way - no feedback? Well, if you want to videotape your techniques to youtube, you will get tones of feedback. (I would do it, but just for an example. I'd get my feedback from my training partner or heavy bag.)

What about bad teacher? How many students have bad knees or hips after traditional karate training?

It's not black and white - but I'm letting go of this subject. I will stay with my argument that you can learn from internet - good and bad and you can learn from teachers - right and wrong techniques. Just compare roundhouse kick from different karate styles, Taekwondo and Muay Thai. All correct techniques, but very much different from each other... how is this possible, if there is a correct one?

Just one teacher tends to find their own technique the right one...

[bushido_man96]

The part I disagree with is the "no choice". There is almost always more options than the easy to see ones. If you can make a road trip to see a teacher on occasion, and make sure to get lots of feedback, you can drill on your own. You can get feedback from other teachers on body structure. You can find something locally available, even if it isn't the exact skill you dream of, and find that you actually get what you need. You can find that guy who doesn't have a shingle out, but is decently competent and has nobody to practice with. But just saying "I have YouTube, I don't need a teacher" is a recipe for disaster.

I would not want to try to learn without any kind of instruction at all. It would be very difficult. I don't think having vids and youtube should be the route only route to go, especially if instruction is available. I also feel that the more experience one has in Martial Arts already, then the more beneficial other media sources become. I'm playing the devil's advocate here, with a likley extreme scenario. However, I do think sometimes a scenario like that can pop up, perhaps that there isn't a school to learn from, but the school doesn't cover the skill set a student is really wanting to work with. In the end, I agree that having a teacher is better, by and large (as long as it isn't a bad one).

[Dobbersky]

A teacher can say "Wait, turn your foot or you'll tear up your knees". A video assumes you did it right.

A teacher can say "You'll need to adjust your balance like so". A video can be played upside down.

A teacher can help you work through the body dynamics to get maximum power out of your body frame. A video can't see what you're doing.

A teacher can say "Well really the reason we keep our hand in this place that you're confused by is to deal with this counter here.." A video will never notice your confusion.

A teacher can immerse you in the traditions and lore necessary to comport yourself among others in your art. A video, if you're lucky, will give you a misleading and vague travelogue that will make no sense to anyone who wasn't there.

A teacher will tell you "That other teacher does it this other way because of reasons X and Y. We do THIS because of Z, which completely precludes us from X." A pile of videos will mongrelize your movement skills incoherently. None of the videos will explain the other videos.

A video, even many videos, is not, and will never be, equivalent to one teacher.

One hour with someone who understands the art decently well and can converse with you, ask questions, critique your movements, and physically make adjustments to your body position will do you more good than forty hours of instructional DVDs. And eighty hours of instructional DVD's is little better than forty hours.

If all you have is videos, you do what you can. But if all you have is videos, maybe you should be asking someone else at the Antarctic base or in your remote third world village to work out with you.

I spent time living in a somewhat rural part of Alaska, studying a pretty obscure art, and *I* was able to find someone who could teach me correctly. I had a small pile of instructional videos. Two hours with a guy who wasn't even an instructor - just a decently experienced student located in the nearest major city who I searched out and went looking for - and I ended up tossing most of them because I was beyond them. Those things are like saying that because you have someones' hastily scribbled shorthand outline notes that they use as a memory aid from a class, that you don't need to actually listen to the lecture.

Solid post!!!

Dobbersku,

does this comment mean that you agree that internet is not a good media for learning martial arts?

Or does it mean that you cannot find good videos about techniques or history of martial arts?

If we agree that learning martial arts is not possible thru internet, what are we doing on this forum? Are you not learning anything? Do you not find any new idea or argument to think about?

What is so solid about that post? Fact that there are bad videos? Fact that video is only one way - no feedback? Well, if you want to videotape your techniques to youtube, you will get tones of feedback. (I would do it, but just for an example. I'd get my feedback from my training partner or heavy bag.)

What about bad teacher? How many students have bad knees or hips after traditional karate training?

It's not black and white - but I'm letting go of this subject. I will stay with my argument that you can learn from internet - good and bad and you can learn from teachers - right and wrong techniques. Just compare roundhouse kick from different karate styles, Taekwondo and Muay Thai. All correct techniques, but very much different from each other... how is this possible, if there is a correct one?

Just one teacher tends to find their own technique the right one...

There is no fully correct way to do anything, I have seen many "warm-up" exercises for instance go from "yes you can do them" to "no you cant because of this, this and this" back to "yes you must do this exercise because it good for you because of this this and this"!!

I watch videos myself on You Tube etc when I'm trying to find specific techniques to Kata that I already know and practice. I don't learn anything directly from the internet because of what has been stated before.

BUT, everyone has a choice as to whether they follow the advice/opinions of others or whether the take the advice/opinions and discard what they disagree with.

Knowledge is the key but you can't ask a video "Am I doing it correct?" A "decent" instructor can see if its correct or not! (although in some schools we still have less skilled instructors (especially in some GKR and offspring dojos))

I agree that there are many "older" Martial Artists who are supporting injuries because of "OleSkool" Training but that was before people started asking questions and just did it without debate.

I feel that today's Decent Instructors are more aware of body mechanics than those of the past. A Yundansha (black belt) SHOULD be taking, even the most basic of techniques, breaking it down to its components and rebuilding it, questioning every movement/stance/position and "feel" what effect it is having on the body.

For example, Round kick off the back leg, unless checked and "trained" many will kick "without" turning the front foot out to open the hips etc thus creating eventual damage to the tendons of the knee atleast.

[xo-karate]

I just watched Matt D'Aquino - Judo tipshttp://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=E9wD_&m=Kc4TotLwchamRM&b=f9780e34C1TF0WSTFj.jdw

Tip was that you should always look for a reaction and counter from it.

(To but it short.)

The tip has from internet and for Judo. I will take it and apply it to BJJ. I don't know how, but after this message I'll start planning an attack from open guard with "action - reaction" strategy.

This is not a new idea for me - so did I learn this from internet? Maybe not, but I was reminded and this might lead to so new learning.

See something new or old, take it and apply it to something different...

Just one example of what learning might be - and application of the technique might even be enhanced by an instructor - Maybe I can't get it working, but with help of a small instruction - let's say on timing...

.....................

BUT it's totally ok if someone does not like to learn from internet, books, did's or training partners. (I also been instructed not to listen to training partners for instruction.) Most important thing is that you feel confident and motivated by the way you learn.

I like to think about things and test my theories by sparring. For me it's mostly about the workout anyway. No real need for self defense, competitions or graduations.

[Dobbersky]

I .....................

BUT it's totally ok if someone does not like to learn from internet, books, did's or training partners. (I also been instructed not to listen to training partners for instruction.) Most important thing is that you feel confident and motivated by the way you learn......

This is Solid.

As long as the individuals are happy with it and they understand that "learning from the internet is to assist rather than be the Core or your training, I have no quarms