Can you learn Martial Arts from internet?

[xo-karate]

But just saying "I have YouTube, I don't need a teacher" is a recipe for disaster.

I would all so write that "I have a teacher, I don't need anything else" as a recipe for disaster. Only way to save your self would be to have multible teachers.

[JusticeZero]

A teacher can say "Wait, turn your foot or you'll tear up your knees". A video assumes you did it right.

A teacher can say "You'll need to adjust your balance like so". A video can be played upside down.

A teacher can help you work through the body dynamics to get maximum power out of your body frame. A video can't see what you're doing.

A teacher can say "Well really the reason we keep our hand in this place that you're confused by is to deal with this counter here.." A video will never notice your confusion.

A teacher can immerse you in the traditions and lore necessary to comport yourself among others in your art. A video, if you're lucky, will give you a misleading and vague travelogue that will make no sense to anyone who wasn't there.

A teacher will tell you "That other teacher does it this other way because of reasons X and Y. We do THIS because of Z, which completely precludes us from X." A pile of videos will mongrelize your movement skills incoherently. None of the videos will explain the other videos.

A video, even many videos, is not, and will never be, equivalent to one teacher.

One hour with someone who understands the art decently well and can converse with you, ask questions, critique your movements, and physically make adjustments to your body position will do you more good than forty hours of instructional DVDs. And eighty hours of instructional DVD's is little better than forty hours.

If all you have is videos, you do what you can. But if all you have is videos, maybe you should be asking someone else at the Antarctic base or in your remote third world village to work out with you.

I spent time living in a somewhat rural part of Alaska, studying a pretty obscure art, and *I* was able to find someone who could teach me correctly. I had a small pile of instructional videos. Two hours with a guy who wasn't even an instructor - just a decently experienced student located in the nearest major city who I searched out and went looking for - and I ended up tossing most of them because I was beyond them. Those things are like saying that because you have someones' hastily scribbled shorthand outline notes that they use as a memory aid from a class, that you don't need to actually listen to the lecture.

[tallgeese]

A teacher can say "Wait, turn your foot or you'll tear up your knees". A video assumes you did it right.

A teacher can say "You'll need to adjust your balance like so". A video can be played upside down.

A teacher can help you work through the body dynamics to get maximum power out of your body frame. A video can't see what you're doing.

A teacher can say "Well really the reason we keep our hand in this place that you're confused by is to deal with this counter here.." A video will never notice your confusion.

A teacher can immerse you in the traditions and lore necessary to comport yourself among others in your art. A video, if you're lucky, will give you a misleading and vague travelogue that will make no sense to anyone who wasn't there.

A teacher will tell you "That other teacher does it this other way because of reasons X and Y. We do THIS because of Z, which completely precludes us from X." A pile of videos will mongrelize your movement skills incoherently. None of the videos will explain the other videos.

A video, even many videos, is not, and will never be, equivalent to one teacher.

One hour with someone who understands the art decently well and can converse with you, ask questions, critique your movements, and physically make adjustments to your body position will do you more good than forty hours of instructional DVDs. And eighty hours of instructional DVD's is little better than forty hours.

If all you have is videos, you do what you can. But if all you have is videos, maybe you should be asking someone else at the Antarctic base or in your remote third world village to work out with you.

This. Very nice, Justice.

[xo-karate]

Maybe there is more to martial arts than just instructions of a technique?

Maybe there is more to learning than accepting instruction from an instructor or from an instruction video?

But we all have different styles of learning and learning from an instructor has been proven to be a good way.

Ofcourse most successful students start to develop their skills and study more. They end up in developing a new style or finding something that works for them. Something that might not work for their sensei.

I will stay on my argument that internet, books and videos are a hugh access of information and I will use it to my best ability.

I got a book about martial arts for Christmas and once again suprised about how mony styles there are. It's good to know something about other styles, too.

(I will use multible instructors to learn new skills and act as an instructor my self. - I wish I'd had internet, when I started to learn about martial arts!!! But 40 years ago it was only very few senseis and some basic books about technique.)

[xo-karate]

One more comment.

Discussion seems to get in which is better - internet or instructor.

This IS NOT THE point here!

Question was "Can you learn from internet?" and What would you try to learn?

It's a little weard for me to think that it has to be one or the other?

Why would anyone think like that?

Maybe a student that finds out things on their own is some what difficult? Asks wrong questions? Or even questions the answer teacher gives?

What is going on here? Do what I say - this is the hole truth!

I am happy that I practise in a doyo where you are allowed to think!

[JusticeZero]

I'm not saying that videos, internet, etc. aren't useful. They're good for giving you some breadth of knowledge. But there is no depth to them. It gives you more options to get your feet wet, but someone who is trying to learn and build their foundation is diving in, and a broad, shallow coating of water isn't going to serve them well at all.

[xo-karate]

I'm not saying that videos, internet, etc. aren't useful. They're good for giving you some breadth of knowledge. But there is no depth to them. It gives you more options to get your feet wet, but someone who is trying to learn and build their foundation is diving in, and a broad, shallow coating of water isn't going to serve them well at all.

Depth is in your own understanding - it's never in the instruction, but the interpretation of the instruction.

BUT now we are going forward - you are saying that for a beginner internet might be a dangerous source of information, because they don't have enough basic knowledge to judge it?

(Have you checked Gracie University - it's for starting BJJ?)

[tallgeese]

Depth might be incumbent on the user; however, it's predicated on time spent first learning the insights of an instructor on just about every aspect of the arts. You can, as mentioned, learn gross motor function from videos. What you can't get is the interactive experience of someone who has "been there, done that" coaching you thru each new movement. Walking you thru how to integrate said movement into your overall pattern.

It's that integration that's hard without first hand correction for newer people. And, as Justice said, the depth of correction isn't there.

I have seen the Gracie University stuff. I can say, as to instructional, it's well done. Well broken down, lots of detail. It's perfect for where I grew up, an area with no BJJ in an hour and a half's drive. However, it still lacks the interactive component from situation to situation. If I wanted to dabble, and lived within distance of a school, it's be more advised to go to the school. Could you learn, sure, but not as fast or as well as you could if you got to a mat and trained with a coach.

It's a well done video. But still just a video.

[JusticeZero]

you are saying that for a beginner internet might be a dangerous source of information, because they don't have enough basic knowledge to judge it?

Yes, I have been and am saying that. I will also add that videos are all very surface level material, and almost never delve into the techniques in great depth. If you understand things well enough already, you can learn a lot. If you don't have that knowledge, it's just calisthenics.

[xo-karate]

Tallgeese and Justice, next message is not to say that you are wrong, but just to throw in one more example. I have not learnd my self a whole skill from internet for martial arts, but I did teach myself golf. I've never taken a class for my golf.

I am sure that I would have learnd to score faster with a help of a teacher and with help of a good teacher it would be a totally different game - but I wanted to figure it out "by my self" - well using all the information I can get from internet.

I play with handicap 11 which is good for a late starter. (I'd like it to be under 10, but ...) I won our national teachers scratch championship this year - so it's not bad for person that learnd it with out help?

I think my strong point in golf is that I understand my swing and can modify it if something is going wrong. I don't have to go to pro to ask what to do - I can fix it in my next shot. (Which I don't do because same mistakes do not repeat, but we make new ones:-)

So you can learn from internet. In golf you need to swing at a real ball and most important skill is to learn to read your ball flight and divot to get feedback.

In Gracie I'd say the most important thing would be some partner to roll with. You cannot learn sparring with out realistic feedback.

(Realistic feedback is one of the most important reasons why I practise BJJ. It's real but let's you practise next day too.)