Questions for Tallgeese: The OODA loop.

[Groinstrike]

I was first made aware of the OODA loop by tallgeese a few years back. The concept was developed by Air Force Colonel John Boyd.

OODA stands for Observe, Orient, Decide, Act and is one of the more applicable theories on the physchology of real life combat.

I was wondering if tallgeese could explain this theory slightly more in depth as my limited knowledge on the subject would not do it justice and would be the most beneficial to those of us on the forum.

Thanks.

Groinstrike

[Kuma]

This article should help:

http://www.correctionsone.com/corrections-training/articles/1842892-The-OODA-Loop/

[tallgeese]

The basics pretty much, intuitively, speak for themselves. These are the pahses that the human body goes through to make pretty much any decision when you think about it. We just study them relitive to combat.

The article Kuma links above gives a pretty good account on what each section entail so I won't spend a bunch of time there. Again, just know what each phase is pretty much speaks for itself.

Observe- seeing the situation and its variables

Orient- yourself to the problem

Decide- intellectually pick a course of action

Act- actually commit to the action you've picked

This cycle then repeats based on the subject's and the enviornments reaction to your act and it begins anew.

Now, this is useful, but it really doesn't help us until we figure out how to use the prinicple to our advantage in combat. This comes from realizing that the faster we move thru the loop, the more likely we are to win. By extension, the slow we make the other guy move thru the loop, the more likely we are to win. It's also important to note that the first step, seeing, is just that the first step. The first one to see the enemy will usually have a huge andvantage in the loop. This speaks highly to developing awareness skills.

Now, on to how to accellerate our loop. Well, we just talked about seeing first. So, if we're aware and have good observation skills, we'll accellerate our response thru the loop. We've just stacked the deck in our favor.

Anther factor to consider is that it's very possible to be distracted by observations that are of no use to us in combat. Paul Howe talks about this extensively in his book "Leadership and Training for the Fight", in fact, he has the best discussion I've ever read of the Boyd Loop. Well worth your time.

Anyway, his point is to limit your focus to area that can actually threaten you and place a higher priority on those areas that can be a threat to you miost quickly. This limits the amount of information you have to process during combat. Again, we start to move quicker.

When we orient ourselves to the incoming information, this is the stage where we take the raw data and distill it into a workable format. It lets us start to set the stage for the decisions we'll make. All kinds of things go into this: our previous similar experiences, our culture and traditions, and our known capabilities.

There are a couple of things of note here. First, when we talk about orientation, mostly it's based on setting ourselves up to deal with the situation. We talk about what's worked for us in the past during similar incidents and what hasn't. As a fighter of any type, it's important to understand that realistic simulated situations give us that "pre-combat veteren" experience. We've tried, under a real as circumstances and possible to gain experiences we're likely to encounter. This helps us structure our training to accellerate our loop process during the real thing.

Then we get to decision. This is where countless reps in training pays off. Sidell talkes about this alot as a way to short cut the "Hick's Law" effect. An overstated prinicple that often times does not take into account high reps of dedicated training. If we have pre-programed respones that work across a wide range of encounters then we don't have to spend as much time deciding. It speeds us up.

Then we get to acting. If we've addressed the aforementioned issues in training, with an understanding of legal and moral ramifications that we've sorted out ahead of time, then this is the easy part. We just respond. If we've done our job in training, then this is the easy part. And we've gotten here before our bad guy.

Now we talk about breaking up the other guys loop. This can occur at any link. If you really get ahold of the concepts, you'll find plenty of ways to do this. For instance, if I get used (as a martial artist) to counter attacking from a non threatening posture then I've messed with his Orientation phase and put him behind the loop. If I create a distration of some sort, the I can mess with his orientation. A flashbang on entry is a good example in police operations.

The list can go on. Additionally, be aware that physilogical factors can affect each stage as well. For you and the other guy, it's best to understand these to get a handle on them BEFORE you have to find out for real. There's even studies (Siddell again) that suggest that even an intellectual understanding of this can decrease physilogical effects of combat stess on one's person. This makes it an imparitive area of study for the martial artist that is serious about understanding his given field.

I recommend Grossman's work and Siddell's on the subjects (On Combat and Sharpening the Warrior's Edge). I'd also HIGHLY recommend Howe's tretise I mentioned earlier.

Hope this gives you a rough outline of the patter and, more importantly, how understanding it can allow you to manipulate it to your advantage.

[Groinstrike]

Good stuff Tallgeese

"On Combat" is defenitly of the short list of books i need to read.

The reason for asking your to explain this is that i was trying to somehow work an explanation of the OODA loop into Bujin somehow.

[tallgeese]

The principles are such that they work across the board for combat in any form. For that matter, they apply to about any situation where a decision gets made.

If people get made aware of them, then taught how to manipulate them, they can work for anyone.

[Groinstrike]

"The key is to obscure your intentions and make them unpredictable to your opponent while you simultaneously clarify his intentions. That is, operate at a faster tempo to generate rapidly changing conditions that inhibit your opponent from adapting or reacting to those changes and that suppress or destroy his awareness. Thus, a hodgepodge of confusion and disorder occur to cause him to over- or under-react to conditions or activities that appear to be uncertain, ambiguous, or incomprehensible."

This is a quote sums up the application of the ooda loop for a combative situation and also describes every sparring session the i have every been a part of.

[bushido_man96]

Thanks for this explanation, tallgeese. I've now added two more books to my "need" list.

[tallgeese]

Sorry about that, bushido man They will be well worth it to you.

[sensei8]

Would this be akin to...

Study your opponent

Study yourself

Make a plan

Carry the plan out

??

[bushido_man96]

Sorry about that, bushido man They will be well worth it to you.

I am sure they will. My wife knows I can't help myself when it comes to literature.

Would this be akin to...

Study your opponent

Study yourself

Make a plan

Carry the plan out

Without as much knowledge on the topic as tallgeese has, I'd still like to offer up my thoughts. I think that the OODA loop probably would fall as a subsection under the "Make a Plan" section of your ladder here. I think the focus behind the OODA loop is to help "Make a Plan" that is as quick, easy, efficient, and effective as possible to initiate and carry out, and I think the big part of it comes from having good tactics that can carry over to multiple scenarios, allowing for quicker decision making.

I hope I'm close here, anyways...