Why did karate lose its value?

[judobrah]

btw god thread

[bushido_man96]

MMA is all over the media and cool to the masses, but in the real world it is impractical. I have no desire to roll around on the ground trying to lock/tapout some thug/mugger.

You may not want to do anything like this, but you have to remember that there is another guy in the fight, too, and he might want to. So it would be a good thing to learn a bit about it, like MasterPain mentions in his post.

[gatorgrasshopper]

MMA is all over the media and cool to the masses, but in the real world it is impractical. I have no desire to roll around on the ground trying to lock/tapout some thug/mugger.

You may not want to do anything like this, but you have to remember that there is another guy in the fight, too, and he might want to. So it would be a good thing to learn a bit about it, like MasterPain mentions in his post.

I do in my JJJ class...it is really a mix of Judo, JJ and aikido. We practice take downs and locks/pins, etc. It is a mix and not as focussed on the ground as a BJJ viewpoint. The aim is to be able to take action if the fight goes to the ground, but it is not focussed on that. A BJJ'r would have the upper hand if we competed and went to the ground for sure but I think my JJJ and Karate (and MMA light training) at least gives me a few tools on my belt to defend.

My allusion on UFC/tapout was to the thread topic and the current crop of folks that see MMA as an end all beat all approach.

[RW]

Ground game doesn't seem to be a smart idea in a fight.

Have you ever thought "man, X could headbutt Y silly right now" when those guys are on top of each other in an MMA fight? What about when they're pushing each other against the cage?

[tallgeese]

The flip to this, while everyone would like to be on their feet, they fail to train in the best way to prevent this...by grappling. Working on the ground is only part of BJJ. Taking down and staying up are a big portion as well.

Additionally, we can all say it's a bad idea to go to the ground but the fact is we can end up there anyway. Failing to spend time training there puts us well behind the curve should we end up there, no matter the position.

It's impossible in the post-UFC era to ignore that component of a well rounded response plan.

[deckerdude]

When i read your post on page one Sensei8, i did not bother to read the other 8 pages!

What you wrote said it all to be honest!

[tallgeese]

Then you missed some great discussion points. Some by sensei8 defending his position on page 1 that were well crafted.

[JusticeZero]

Have you ever thought "man, X could headbutt Y silly right now" when those guys are on top of each other in an MMA fight? What about when they're pushing each other against the cage?

No, because the standard headbutt is in my list of "things that only sound good to people who haven't thought it through". Impact head butts on hard targets - like a skull - have the disadvantage that they clobber two people for the price of one.

[MasterPain]

Have you ever thought "man, X could headbutt Y silly right now" when those guys are on top of each other in an MMA fight? What about when they're pushing each other against the cage?

No, because the standard headbutt is in my list of "things that only sound good to people who haven't thought it through". Impact head butts on hard targets - like a skull - have the disadvantage that they clobber two people for the price of one.

.

A proper headbutt uses the part of the forehead where my hairline used to be as a striking surface. The target should be temples, jawline, orbital bones, the same as you'd hit with your fists. You wouldn't punch someone in the forehead, why headbutt them there?

With that said, sure they could headbutt from the proper positions, they could also knee to the groin or jump out of the cage and hit them with a folding chair.

[MasterPain]

Ground game doesn't seem to be a smart idea in a fight.

Have you ever thought "man, X could headbutt Y silly right now" when those guys are on top of each other in an MMA fight? What about when they're pushing each other against the cage?

Effective headbutting requires good position and grappling ability. If I'm confident that a fight is one on one, there is nowhere I feel more comfortable than on top of them. Then it's not a fair fight anymore. When both people are standing, they are on equal ground. Fairness and equality are not positive things in a fight.