Changing Karate Styles

[Ueshirokarate]

Wow, there is a fire hose of information here and yes you make sound points. I still see these as more stylistic differences than fundamental ones. I think what would be most helpful for me, would be to understand the differences from an application stand point. For example, let's just take that first technique. Please look at the Matsubayashi version's opening move it is into neko ashi-dachi:

All three have a hammer fist down. From what I see, Matsubayashi and Wado have two, Shotokan only once. However, both Shotokan and Wado differ from left to right, whereas Matsubayahsi has mirrored the techniques.

While I am very technical when studying my particular style, I do look at one style to a another in much looser terms. Therefore, where you see major difference, I see parallel paths with slightly different roads.

Our bunkai on this opening move, is that someone just grabbed your left arm. In one move you are breaking free from the hold and striking the forearm of the tori. The Shotokan version looks like just a standard down block to the left. To me it makes the Wado version and the Matsubayashi version much closer than the Shotokan is to either (in terms of the opening move).

[sojobo]

Wow, there is a fire hose of information here and yes you make sound points. I still see these as more stylistic differences than fundamental ones. I think what would be most helpful for me, would be to understand the differences from an application stand point. For example, let's just take that first technique. Please look at the Matsubayashi version's opening move it is into neko ashi-dachi:

All three have a hammer fist down. From what I see, Matsubayashi and Wado have two, Shotokan only once. However, both Shotokan and Wado differ from left to right, whereas Matsubayahsi has mirrored the techniques.

While I am very technical when studying my particular style, I do look at one style to a another in much looser terms. Therefore, where you see major difference, I see parallel paths with slightly different roads.

Our bunkai on this opening move, is that someone just grabbed your left arm. In one move you are breaking free from the hold and striking the forearm of the tori. The Shotokan version looks like just a standard down block to the left. To me it makes the Wado version and the Matsubayashi version much closer than the Shotokan is to either (in terms of the opening move).

Well we will have to agree to disagree - I see them as fundamental differences, but that aside...

I have attached a copy of a friend of mine performing the "keisetsu" for the first technique along with others in the kata.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykjX_GPIhkg&feature=player_embedded

Yes wado has two tetsui ukes.

Sojobo

[Ueshirokarate]

Wow, there is a fire hose of information here and yes you make sound points. I still see these as more stylistic differences than fundamental ones. I think what would be most helpful for me, would be to understand the differences from an application stand point. For example, let's just take that first technique. Please look at the Matsubayashi version's opening move it is into neko ashi-dachi:

All three have a hammer fist down. From what I see, Matsubayashi and Wado have two, Shotokan only once. However, both Shotokan and Wado differ from left to right, whereas Matsubayahsi has mirrored the techniques.

While I am very technical when studying my particular style, I do look at one style to a another in much looser terms. Therefore, where you see major difference, I see parallel paths with slightly different roads.

Our bunkai on this opening move, is that someone just grabbed your left arm. In one move you are breaking free from the hold and striking the forearm of the tori. The Shotokan version looks like just a standard down block to the left. To me it makes the Wado version and the Matsubayashi version much closer than the Shotokan is to either (in terms of the opening move).

Well we will have to agree to disagree - I see them as fundamental differences, but that aside...

I have attached a copy of a friend of mine performing the "keisetsu" for the first technique along with others in the kata.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykjX_GPIhkg&feature=player_embedded

Yes wado has two tetsui ukes.

Sojobo

What is the application of that opening move in Wado?

[sojobo]

Did you see the video?

[Ueshirokarate]

Never mind, I didn't watch the video before I asked the question. That video is basically bunkai and the application is pretty much identical to the application of Matsubayashi, in that you are attacking the tori's forearm. By the way, we twist our forarms like you in our techniques, even in this opening move (hard to see it as Sindt is so darn fast). The hammer fist ideally targets forearm pressure points. The first part of the movement breaks a hold in our kata, but we are both delivering very similar attacks.

[sojobo]

The reason why we do it the way we do in Wado - with the weight dropping into Mahanmi Nekoashi - is more important than the application.

Sojobo

[Ueshirokarate]

The reason why we do it the way we do in Wado - with the weight dropping into Mahanmi Nekoashi - is more important than the application.

Sojobo

Once again, almost identical to Matsubayashi, as the weight is dropped into neko ashi dachi. Our whole style comes down to whipping movements starting in being rooted to the deck through the hara and into the hands. Much like a whip's power starting in the hand and being magnified through the whip into the tip of the whip. Does that makes sense? I would also add that the ending sequence in Wado is also very much like Matsubayashi, in that while the kata is downward shuto-uke, the hidden technique for the kata learned as one advances is a shuto-zuke rearward most hand. To me both katas look quite different on the surface, but I do believe that applications are all the same or very, close.

[sojobo]

It does make sense.

I know the whip action you refer to and it does not tend to feature in Wado.

Its a shame there is not a decent Wado club you can go to as studying our Kihon Kumite would be good for you I think.

Anyway, got to go to keiko.

Catch you later.

[Shotoseidoka]

So back to differences between Wado and Shotokan

it can be seen in the first kata

Shotokan's Heian Shodan (Kanazawa Sensei)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgg8vF_l8ZI

Wado's Pinan Nidan (Jiro Otsuka Sensei)

If you read Funakoshi's "To-te Jittsu" he performs pinan shodan as heian shodan...

Pinan is Okinawan while Heian is Japanese, both with the same Kanji and meaning...I've tried to find when Nidan became Shodan but can't find it.

To the OP, don't worry about differences in the styles...if you are a serious Karateka, and I assume you are because you've made it to shodan and are looking to keep learning, then talk with the sensei. Let him know your experience level, if he makes you start out as a white belt so be it. Some times it can be a blessing in disguise. if it were me, I'd don a shiro-obi and take the take the class, learn everything the sensei has to teach, good or bad...this will just give you more tools if and when you decide to open your own school