Pounding A Stone

[ps1]

I also concur. "Boards don't hit back"...but walls do!!

This is technically correct! Equal and opposite reaction...

[Spodo Komodo]

Ishi mochi (stone pounding) never really uses full force if you watch it. It's more a slow steady pace.

I did some of this when I did a bit of karate at university in the 80s. It was explained to us that it was a continuation of the progression from sandbag to gravel bag to rock bag. The intention was not to condition the knuckles or to develop power but to encourage good technique and power transference. Maintaining some sensitivity in the arm is key to being able to strike an unyielding surface, just driving through like you would with a heavy bag is a recipe for fractures and pain. We also kicked at an iron pillar to develop a similar sensitivity in the leg.

Probably why my knees are held together by string and brown paper these days.

[Ueshirokarate]

Ishi mochi (stone pounding) never really uses full force if you watch it. It's more a slow steady pace.

I did some of this when I did a bit of karate at university in the 80s. It was explained to us that it was a continuation of the progression from sandbag to gravel bag to rock bag. The intention was not to condition the knuckles or to develop power but to encourage good technique and power transference. Maintaining some sensitivity in the arm is key to being able to strike an unyielding surface, just driving through like you would with a heavy bag is a recipe for fractures and pain. We also kicked at an iron pillar to develop a similar sensitivity in the leg.

Probably why my knees are held together by string and brown paper these days.

I don't see how hitting a stone would "encourage good technique (other than letting you know if you didn't hit on the front two knuckles) or power transference. I certainly think this is the role of makiwara, but for stone striking and other hard objects I only see the purpose as body conditioning through increasing bone density. Would you mind explaining your post further? I am curious about what you say, especially the sensitivity aspect.

[DWx]

Higaonna sensei is impressive. Heh I do similar stuff on the wall.... albeit nowhere near as hard!

Reminds me of Tong Po in Kickboxer.

Watched that movie last night

[Spodo Komodo]

I don't see how hitting a stone would "encourage good technique (other than letting you know if you didn't hit on the front two knuckles) or power transference. I certainly think this is the role of makiwara, but for stone striking and other hard objects I only see the purpose as body conditioning through increasing bone density. Would you mind explaining your post further? I am curious about what you say, especially the sensitivity aspect.

It was explained to me that it was all about feeling how your body reacts when hitting an unyielding surface and compensating as soon as you begin to feel that the power of the strike is being reflected. By becoming sensitive to the feedback from the striking limb it is supposedly possible to punch or kick with a maximum efficiency and minimum risk. A poor technique against a hard surface deflects the force away from the direction of the strike and results in the wrist or ankle bending. I'm not sure I ever did enough of it to feel the benefits and I haven't trained anywhere that has done this since so I can't really comment about it's efficacy.

[Ueshirokarate]

I don't see how hitting a stone would "encourage good technique (other than letting you know if you didn't hit on the front two knuckles) or power transference. I certainly think this is the role of makiwara, but for stone striking and other hard objects I only see the purpose as body conditioning through increasing bone density. Would you mind explaining your post further? I am curious about what you say, especially the sensitivity aspect.

It was explained to me that it was all about feeling how your body reacts when hitting an unyielding surface and compensating as soon as you begin to feel that the power of the strike is being reflected. By becoming sensitive to the feedback from the striking limb it is supposedly possible to punch or kick with a maximum efficiency and minimum risk. A poor technique against a hard surface deflects the force away from the direction of the strike and results in the wrist or ankle bending. I'm not sure I ever did enough of it to feel the benefits and I haven't trained anywhere that has done this since so I can't really comment about it's efficacy.

Interesting, thanks.

[sensei8]

In YOUR opinion, is what Higaonna Sensei doing fool-heartedly or not?

[Montana]

In YOUR opinion, is what Higaonna Sensei doing fool-heartedly or not?

In my opinion, yes, it is. The long term effects of that sort of conditioning, such as severe arthritis, makes it dangerous, and there are no applications in the real world for it.

Light conditioning, such as a makiwara or bag training is OK...I do that, but to this extent...no.

[Kuma]

For the average person I would say yes. Higaonna Sensei has been training in karate since 1952 and has put in a lot to his foundation through Sanchin kata, hojo undo, and impact conditioning. It was probably many many years before he even attempted anything on that pillar. It obviously hasn't slowed him down much, as the man is 72 years old and still trains several hours a day, including hojo undo and sparring. Then again, he has also been doing this kind of thing for almost 60 years. Conditioning is a marathon, not a sprint, and many practitioners try to rush right through it. That's what brings about injuries, not sensible progression.

[bushido_man96]

In YOUR opinion, is what Higaonna Sensei doing fool-heartedly or not?

In my opinion, yes, it is. The long term effects of that sort of conditioning, such as severe arthritis, makes it dangerous, and there are no applications in the real world for it.

Light conditioning, such as a makiwara or bag training is OK...I do that, but to this extent...no.

I'm with Montana on this one. Great for him, but I don't think so great for me. Not everyone's body is going to react to that kind of training the same way, and I don't wish to aggravate my bones and joints that much.