On The Ground

[sensei8]

Brian's 5'8". I'm 6'1". I'm obviously taller than Brian.

To start this topic/thread, I've a question...

While Brian and I are on the ground...

Aren't we both the same size?

[ps1]

Nope. You have mass, Brian has mass. Anytime you want to set mass into motion, or stop mass from moving, you must overcome it's inertia. That requires a lever. They type of lever and force applied to it changes based on it's position relative to the center of mass of the object being acted upon.

Mass matters...

[bushido_man96]

A nice start to a discussion...

Now, with mass being a variable that must be considered, even on the ground, is there a strategy that a person with less mass should take into consideration when grappling with a heavier person?

Another question I have, is does taking a good striker to the ground have a good effect on taking some of the "umph" out of his striking ability? Or is that just an assumption? I would guess that if you get a good striker on his back, then you take away alot of the momentum and weight transfer he can get into his strikes away.

[ps1]

A nice start to a discussion...

Now, with mass being a variable that must be considered, even on the ground, is there a strategy that a person with less mass should take into consideration when grappling with a heavier person?

Another question I have, is does taking a good striker to the ground have a good effect on taking some of the "umph" out of his striking ability? Or is that just an assumption? I would guess that if you get a good striker on his back, then you take away alot of the momentum and weight transfer he can get into his strikes away.

It's all about proper technique. Smaller people have no choice but to develop the proper body mechanics because they aren't usually able to muscle people around. Once they've taken the time to develop solid body mechanics, smaller people tend to add speed to their movements. While it's not a necessity, it certainly helps.

Regarding strikers on the ground, Yes and no. The mistake that strikers make on the ground is that they try to throw strikes when they should be controlling their position. That leads to easy escapes. That said, once a person learns when it's safe to strike, ground and pound can be very very effective.

Certainly, most strikes are useless from on your back. The focus of the person on their back should be on submitting, sweeping, or getting back to their feet.

[ShoriKid]

Brian's 5'8". I'm 6'1". I'm obviously taller than Brian.

To start this topic/thread, I've a question...

While Brian and I are on the ground...

Aren't we both the same size?

Assuming the same weight, nope, you're different sizes. Fighting taller people in stand up sucks, and when they are on the ground, it's the same thing. Taller guys are longer, so they have more "reach" on the ground and once they learn to use it, it is an advantage you have to over come. Not that you can't, but it's something you have to learn to compensate for.

[bushido_man96]

Great info so far guys, thanks. I think I'll look into one of those stretchers to make me taller...

[ShoriKid]

Great info so far guys, thanks. I think I'll look into one of those stretchers to make me taller...

Can I sell you mine? It's only slightly used.

[pittbullJudoka]

As stated above the weight does make a bit of diffrence on the the ground. But there are two types of grapplers those who know their positions and know how too use their weight and those that know their positions and don't know how to use their weight. Now type one is very hard to do anything with you basically have to to wait on this type to make a mistake so you can attack. And type two you can pretty much pick how you sweep or submit. Given both parties are the same skill a much smaller grappler can hold his own with a much larger grappler by faints and sudden short bursts of speed never muscle us smaller guys loose 10 out of 10 on that front.

Smaller verus larger far as pure length as Shorikid says sucks very much. The reach he speaks of allows for them to get subs easier and from much diffrent angles. But the length can be a disadvantage for them too. The down fall of long verus short it you have longer legs to get past our guard( more to grab a hold of to keep half guard ect.) Also the major disadvantage for the longer person come when needing to recover position the have longer limbs to try to get past you body when trying to get back to guard or out of side control and of positions of comprimise.

Now we add striking. One mistake I've seen most good strikers make on the ground in the top position is they telegraph their strike BAD. They raise up, getting their weight high and wind up for that big shot using all arm. A good ground and pund artist will pop up and drill you they still get the hip torque into it but of course it's not as much. When you are striking on the ground you must learn to use you position to pretorque you body to let it naturally unwind with the strike.

Now let's put the this good striker on the bottom. Most are done here unless they have a good ground defence to start. But a good striker from his back learns to control his opponents posture. In this control you learn short but effective strikes and your big strikes will come off of a pushing control.

I know that most people never discuss it but there is a lot of very good self defence and striking in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu it just needs some polish and it's being lost due to the natur of most players just want to submit and win medals and fight in mma.

So in short grapple with people of the diffrent sizes this mean grappler with the strong, weak, short, tall, skinny, thick, broad, average, fast, slow, good strikes and bad, the more skilled, and the less skilled, the new, the old, and men and the women.

Remember be kind and help each other you best tool in a good training partner. Even if they aren't as skilled as you they can still give you feed back to help you improve and you can teach them something new. Jiu Jitsu gives you many brother and sisters who care.

[bushido_man96]

Great info so far guys, thanks. I think I'll look into one of those stretchers to make me taller...

Can I sell you mine? It's only slightly used.

How much?

We've been addressing here that the taller person, Bob, is getting the advantage. Now, what if Brian weighs 255 pounds, and Bob only weighs 210 pounds. How much does this change things up?

[boyo1991]

hmmmmmm thats an interesting question.. my question tho is what kind of fight is it? is it pure grappling? or is there striking involved? cuz if your taller, my guess is reach would play a factor in striking... but as for the throw, the only way it would really matter in my opinion if your bigger or not is if hes like 4' and your like 6'6" cuz the difference is much greater, it will be even easier for you to take him to the ground... take this example.... say your play fighting with a young child of like 6 years old lets say... they are easier to put to the ground.. you have advantage... they would need to learn technique to have even a shared advantage... but once your on the ground... its all about technique... IN MY OPINION.