Literal Kata!!

[sojobo]

...whereas in the Adult syllabus this is where the Bunkai/Application/Hidden techniques comes to life.

With the same 3 kata?

sojobo

[Dobbersky]

...whereas in the Adult syllabus this is where the Bunkai/Application/Hidden techniques comes to life.

With the same 3 kata?

sojobo

The first 3 kata are for the kids syllabus only then the kata after that is where this ethos comes into play. Apologies for not making that clearer than that

[yamesu]

I agree with Sojobo, in that in-depth understanding of any given kata requires in-depth understanding of the Art itself.

In a sense, aren't they one and the same?

Only if the Art is strongly built upon kata

Some schools may use kata simply as a means to delevop coordination, basic techiques and movement.

[Ueshirokarate]

I agree with Sojobo, in that in-depth understanding of any given kata requires in-depth understanding of the Art itself.

In a sense, aren't they one and the same?

Only if the Art is strongly built upon kata

Some schools may use kata simply as a means to delevop coordination, basic techiques and movement.

Not sure I agree with that philosophy. But in the system I am in, kata is the heart of karate.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Ueshirokarate

[Harlan]

Yes. But I don't train in THOSE schools.

To me, if it looks like a punch or kick, and sensei says it's a punch or kick, then that is what it is. On the other hand, we do Goju, and train Goju, as a different animal. Much of a kata's interpretation, what seems like an obvious, literal, application, is dependant on pre-existing assumptions. Change those assumptions about application, body dynamics, movement, power generation, attack lines, etc, and a whole new 'obvious' shakes out.

Have you ever seen a Kata where each and every movement within said Kata is literal?

[Ueshirokarate]

Yes. But I don't train in THOSE schools.

To me, if it looks like a punch or kick, and sensei says it's a punch or kick, then that is what it is. On the other hand, we do Goju, and train Goju, as a different animal. Much of a kata's interpretation, what seems like an obvious, literal, application, is dependant on pre-existing assumptions. Change those assumptions about application, body dynamics, movement, power generation, attack lines, etc, and a whole new 'obvious' shakes out.

Have you ever seen a Kata where each and every movement within said Kata is literal?

As I see it, there are multiple applications for many of the moves. Some can be applied as a throw, strike or block. Would you agree?

[Dobbersky]

I agree with Sojobo, in that in-depth understanding of any given kata requires in-depth understanding of the Art itself.

In a sense, aren't they one and the same?

Only if the Art is strongly built upon kata

Some schools may use kata simply as a means to delevop coordination, basic techiques and movement.

Not sure I agree with that philosophy. But in the system I am in, kata is the heart of karate.

Totally agree with you on the ethos that Kata IS the heart of Karate

[Harlan]

The original question wasn't whether or not techniques have multiple application, but if one has seen literal kata. Obviously, there can be multiple applications, but if linked with performance and it can be this or that...well...then one is looking at something that is generic, and also typical of public performances.

Yes. But I don't train in THOSE schools.

To me, if it looks like a punch or kick, and sensei says it's a punch or kick, then that is what it is. On the other hand, we do Goju, and train Goju, as a different animal. Much of a kata's interpretation, what seems like an obvious, literal, application, is dependant on pre-existing assumptions. Change those assumptions about application, body dynamics, movement, power generation, attack lines, etc, and a whole new 'obvious' shakes out.

Have you ever seen a Kata where each and every movement within said Kata is literal?

As I see it, there are multiple applications for many of the moves. Some can be applied as a throw, strike or block. Would you agree?

Frankly, I like 'literal' kata: "This is where you grab the head, smash the face, and break the neck."

Edited August 11, 2011 by Harlan

[Ueshirokarate]

The original question wasn't whether or not techniques have multiple application, but if one has seen literal kata. Obviously, there can be multiple applications, but if linked with performance and it can be this or that...well...then one is looking at something that is generic, and also typical of public performances.

Yes. But I don't train in THOSE schools.

To me, if it looks like a punch or kick, and sensei says it's a punch or kick, then that is what it is. On the other hand, we do Goju, and train Goju, as a different animal. Much of a kata's interpretation, what seems like an obvious, literal, application, is dependant on pre-existing assumptions. Change those assumptions about application, body dynamics, movement, power generation, attack lines, etc, and a whole new 'obvious' shakes out.

Have you ever seen a Kata where each and every movement within said Kata is literal?

As I see it, there are multiple applications for many of the moves. Some can be applied as a throw, strike or block. Would you agree?

Frankly, I like 'literal' kata: "This is where you grab the head, smash the face, and break the neck."

I don't know, there isn't a move in any of the 11 katas that I know that I couldn't use to hurt someone or block someone's attack with.

[sensei8]

Possible using the word "literal" was incorrect on my part. So...

When I say LITERAL within this thread/topic, I'm speaking about...

A block is just that...it's a block

A strike is just that...it's a strike

A punch is just that...it's a punch

ETC...ETC...ETC...

Nothing hidden/secret in it's application.

A punch can be both a punch and a block. A block can also be a strike. There are no hard and fast rules in karate and most techniques you train in kata have direct application in a fight and often times they are multiple.

Yes, I concur, I was keeping my explanation as simplistic as possible.