yamesu Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 Very interesting topic and discussions!I agree with Sojobo, in that in-depth understanding of any given kata requires in-depth understanding of the Art itself.Than there is also schools which require higher level students to come up with their own bunkai for kata... Thus application is down to the individual and how well it will work for them.OSU! "We did not inherit this earth from our parents. We are borrowing it from our children."
Ueshirokarate Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 I agree with Sojobo, in that in-depth understanding of any given kata requires in-depth understanding of the Art itself.In a sense, aren't they one and the same? Matsubayashi RyuCMMACC (Certified Mixed Martial Arts Conditioning Coach)
sensei8 Posted August 9, 2011 Author Posted August 9, 2011 Possible using the word "literal" was incorrect on my part. So...When I say LITERAL within this thread/topic, I'm speaking about...A block is just that...it's a blockA strike is just that...it's a strikeA punch is just that...it's a punchETC...ETC...ETC...Nothing hidden/secret in it's application. **Proof is on the floor!!!
sojobo Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 Possible using the word "literal" was incorrect on my part. So...When I say LITERAL within this thread/topic, I'm speaking about...A block is just that...it's a blockA strike is just that...it's a strikeA punch is just that...it's a punchETC...ETC...ETC...Nothing hidden/secret in it's application. There is nothing hidden in "Kata" per-se, the form is the form - you perform it exactly as you sensei tells you to.Application, Oyo, Bunkai etc., is something else. It's where Shu-ha-ri comes in. Very important part of realising "kata".Sojobo I know violence isn't the answer... I got it wrong on purpose!!!http://www.karatedo.co.jp/wado/w_eng/e_index.htm
sojobo Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 And, my take on Kata, has been that perhaps at one point, all the movements were based on something that was used in that exact fashion in combat...but if I, personally, ever executed most of the motions the way they are in a kata, I'd be promptly beat up, killed, and stuffed in a shallow grave.As far as interpreting kata literally - as in, applying them to what you do today- I think you've got to find out what that specific kata was made to do, and who it was made for. If there were a kata made for huge white guys to defend themselves in a street fight or bar...I imagine it wouldn't look like most others.Out of interest, what style of Karate do you train in?sojobo I know violence isn't the answer... I got it wrong on purpose!!!http://www.karatedo.co.jp/wado/w_eng/e_index.htm
Jeffrey Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 I think all Kata is literal in everything that can be a block/strike/punch/kick/throw etc.. You get out what you put in to each Kata.
Ueshirokarate Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 Possible using the word "literal" was incorrect on my part. So...When I say LITERAL within this thread/topic, I'm speaking about...A block is just that...it's a blockA strike is just that...it's a strikeA punch is just that...it's a punchETC...ETC...ETC...Nothing hidden/secret in it's application. A punch can be both a punch and a block. A block can also be a strike. There are no hard and fast rules in karate and most techniques you train in kata have direct application in a fight and often times they are multiple. Matsubayashi RyuCMMACC (Certified Mixed Martial Arts Conditioning Coach)
Jeffrey Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 Possible using the word "literal" was incorrect on my part. So...When I say LITERAL within this thread/topic, I'm speaking about...A block is just that...it's a blockA strike is just that...it's a strikeA punch is just that...it's a punchETC...ETC...ETC...Nothing hidden/secret in it's application. A punch can be both a punch and a block. A block can also be a strike. There are no hard and fast rules in karate and most techniques you train in kata have direct application in a fight and often times they are multiple.Very true!
sojobo Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 Possible using the word "literal" was incorrect on my part. So...When I say LITERAL within this thread/topic, I'm speaking about...A block is just that...it's a blockA strike is just that...it's a strikeA punch is just that...it's a punchETC...ETC...ETC...Nothing hidden/secret in it's application. A punch can be both a punch and a block. A block can also be a strike. There are no hard and fast rules in karate and most techniques you train in kata have direct application in a fight and often times they are multiple.I understand your point, but I am struggling with it a bit.In Kata, a punch “IS” a punch.In Bunkai/Oyo there may be extrapolations.My instructor often says "Kata is Kata and Kumite is Kumite".Oyo / Bunkai is the bridge between the two, but when learning and performing kata a punch should be done as a punch.Again this is where “Shu-ha-ri” comes in.Shu - Embrace the kata (ie do it exactly as it says on the box).Ha - Diverge from the KataRi - Discard the KataThrough this process, the practitioner uses the kata to evolve - the result (hopefully) being automatic/instinctive Kumite.But throughout the process the Kata remains constant, it is the blue print of the Ryu as it were that is ready to be picked up by the next student and so on.Sojobo I know violence isn't the answer... I got it wrong on purpose!!!http://www.karatedo.co.jp/wado/w_eng/e_index.htm
Dobbersky Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 I have 3 kata in my syllabus which are "Literal Kata", the first 3 kata that are taught in the children's syllabus. They're just training kata, every technique in the first 3 kata are exactly what is done - strikes are strikes, blocks are blocks etc. From there all kata are taught literally within this syllabus whereas in the Adult syllabus this is where the Bunkai/Application/Hidden techniques comes to life.Excellent topic and excellent responsesOsu! "Challenge is a Dragon with a Gift in its mouth....Tame the Dragon and the Gift is Yours....." Noela Evans (author)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now