Study on fights

[honoluludesktop]

Sample size is not the question, it is whether the YouTube fights represent a unbiased selection of "all street fights". Even biased is OK if the conclusions state so, but that was not the case. The information required in either case is not conclusively provided by YouTube videos.

A accurate survey requires the right data, or a accurate definition of the sample set. The conclusions can then be stated as such. If the data on the sample set is not available, then no scientifically accurate conclusion can be drawn outside the sample set.

Again, those that choose to apply the conclusions of the report to the real world are free to do so. Just don't justify that belief within the shroud of inferring that it is a scientifically accurate survey.

[Liver Punch]

I think there's a few problems from the get-go.

1) An overwhelmingly large amount of street fights that take place do not feature a single contestant who is a martial artist.

2) An even smaller amount of fights that feature a single martial artist feature two martial artists.

3) A much smaller amount of that features two martial artists that are well versed in all areas of combat.

4) A huge amount of fights are not on tape or reported to the police.

That aside, I think that the traditional martial art idea that you shouldn't go to the ground is based a combination of a lack of techniques from the ground, the use of weapons in real life, and the presence of multiple attackers. A Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner or wrestler likely thinks that you shouldn't let a one-on-one fight stay on its feet. If we change that fight to three guys with sticks or knives, and it's a different story.

A lot of the traditional arts are based on things that would be relevant in war, and therefore are based on a lot more factors than what you'd find with two drunk guys in a bar alley.

[MasterPain]

Youtube street fights seem like a good place to see the unwashed masses fight. For somewhat washed masses, watch amateur mma. For cleaner masses watch pro mma.

[Wolfman08]

It's still a reasonable sample. It's very hard to find ANY sample of fights that are in any way a good representative sample; YouTube is most likely one of the best ways to find a vaguely representative set available.

The study was focusing on the assumption of unskilled fighters, so in that context, it's not a terrible sample. I would still significantly prefer something else, but it is acceptable for a non-academic study. I'd also say that for control purposes, MMA fights would probably work.

[JusticeZero]

MMA fights are not representative in any way of fights on the whole, though; they are completely unsuitable for use as a control for anything but MMA fights.

[bushido_man96]

Are many MAists going to the ground or not going to the ground because of what a report or people say?

I'm hoping its neither, because every MAist must do what they feel is the best for them per the situation at hand for themselves.

IMHO!!

I agree with you here; every MAist must do what they feel is best for them. However, the fact of the matter is that when a fight happens, try as one might to control all aspects of a fight, there are variables in fights that arise that may be out of our control. Hence, more people end up on the ground than they might plan.

[bushido_man96]

It's still a reasonable sample. It's very hard to find ANY sample of fights that are in any way a good representative sample; YouTube is most likely one of the best ways to find a vaguely representative set available.

The study was focusing on the assumption of unskilled fighters, so in that context, it's not a terrible sample. I would still significantly prefer something else, but it is acceptable for a non-academic study. I'd also say that for control purposes, MMA fights would probably work.

I think that MMA fights would not be as good as a control group, because you have a more select sample you are picking from. Its also a different environment than "non-consesnual" combat takes place in. Therefore, I don't think it would accurately reflect what happens in "non-consensual" combat.

[tallgeese]

Being the practical guy, and not a numbers guy, I'll refrain from commenting on such things as sample size, ect. I will however, comment on a couple of things.

First up, almost verbatim from the article, there is the statement that of the high percentage of fights that go to there is a scramble for dominance. Position is something I've always preached for self defense grappling. Here's the thing, to me this is even more of an argument FOR training ground fighting that not. You don't learn to scramble for positional dominance by avoiding training for the ground fight and focusing finishing people from standing while they are down. You lean to do it by training grappling.

Not to say finishing from up top is not important, but I don't think this is an argument to not train ground fighting. I think it does go to my theory that training positional control is highly important so you can achieve top position.

So, even if it's not the best sampling ever it does teach us some valuable things. Good find.

As a side note, it's important to understand what environment you're working in. In the past several years professionally, I can say for sure that 100% of the fights I've been in have gone to the ground. All of them. This is due to a couple of reasons, for starters the need to control a subject and place him in custody. For another, it's easier to cuff someone fighting while they are down. Last, fights involving cops generate a lot more cops. When you put multiple bodies on one or two combatants they tend to fall over. Hence, me and the polyester pile end up on the ground a lot.

Even when scrapping one on one with a bad guy, I feel much more in control if I can dominate positionally and still maintain the ability to escalate or disengage or continue with the course of action. I can either push the control from there to detaining the subject or simply hold position until back up arrives.

These are concerns that are very specific to me. Everyone will have similar concerns, most people never evaluate this. It's important to do to be able to interpenetrate information we get like this study for our response patterns.

[Wolfman08]

MMA fights are not representative in any way of fights on the whole, though; they are completely unsuitable for use as a control for anything but MMA fights.

MMA Fights are the only way you can control for differences in weight, height, strength, experience, etc. For an academic study of this nature to be published, you would need to control numerous factors, which you cannot do if you use Youtube fights.

[JusticeZero]

They control for physical factors that weren't involved in the question, and puts them into a totally unnatural context that has virtually no resemblance to an uncontrolled fight. It was, after all, trying to examine uncontrolled fights, not duels; studying MMA matches is a bit like trying to get an "accurate picture of medieval military combat" by going to a fencing match.