Kata - What's it all for?

[sensei8]

As much as I'm devoted to kata, I'd never rely on it by and of itself, that's why we have the three K's; they support one another as a whole, imho.

[bushido_man96]

After a lot of years training in traditional styles and having always had some open minded, adding in things that don't seem "traditional" at first turned out to be on the money. Heavy bag work, double ended bag work, lots of partnered work etc were always important. Stealing what was good from somewhere else and seeing how it can both improve what you're doing and how it fits into the frame work of your existing skills. All more traditional than you would at first think.

The fixation on kata as a primary thing to spend class time on is something that I don't think earlier karatemen would have advocated. It eats up a lot of class time though and lets the instructor get around to a lot of students. Drills, working on fundamentals and two man sets were where most of the time would be spent. Kata is for when you don't have partners to work with and to instill movements that have good application (something you have to put a lot of work into). When you have training partners you should be using them. Time devoted to kata should be enough to learn them well enough to practice on your own. Then get the occasional correction. Along with that working out two man drills that break down the applications. Lastly, kata, to me is something that will allows you to continue training after you've gotten too old to bang around every night.

I agree with your assessment here. I think that doing paired work on the applications is a much more productive use of class time than spending it on solo forms practice. I would love to do more things like this, aside from our one-step sparring that we do. Given a chance, it should evolve and become more interactive as time goes on and experience grows.

[bushido_man96]

As much as I'm devoted to kata, I'd never rely on it by and of itself, that's why we have the three K's; they support one another as a whole, imho.

I agree, Bob, if they are intertwined with each other, and not done independent of each other. I guess I'd like to see how they chain together and go seemlessly with each other, and not be kihon, THEN kata, THEN kumite. If that makes sense....

I had never heard of bunkai before joining this site. Kata learned in conjunction with realistic bunkai seems like a good way to have 2 person drills as well as a guide to practicing them solo.

I never had either. What I've seen and learned on this site from others has caused me to go research these things on my own, and I do see loads of potential in the use of forms and applications together. In my opinion, with the use of forms applications, I would prefer to see the use of one-step sparring in my school become obsolete.

[UselessDave]

Strength, power, balance.. I could blame my minor training time for that I don't get much out of the applications. I know them, and practice them a little . But they just seem so complicated.. But it has to be time.

[Ohanamalu6]

Strength, power, balance.. I could blame my minor training time for that I don't get much out of the applications. I know them, and practice them a little . But they just seem so complicated.. But it has to be time.

Yes, UselessDave, forms - kata - are complicated and seem abstract at first. Then they change. If you commit yourself to the 'long path' of karate-do, you will see each form and the practice of forms themself morph a thousand times into a thousand different things.

For me, a teacher and student and 1st Degree BB, forms are my focus right now. I am continually learning so much more about what each form can teach me, about why each move is each move, and how my BB forms build off my White Belt forms.

I hope you keep at it. In a time where instant gratification is the norm, Karate-do gives us something we can be assured to never fully understand, and whose lessons are revealed slowly and with purpose.

[UselessDave]

Strength, power, balance.. I could blame my minor training time for that I don't get much out of the applications. I know them, and practice them a little . But they just seem so complicated.. But it has to be time.

Yes, UselessDave, forms - kata - are complicated and seem abstract at first. Then they change. If you commit yourself to the 'long path' of karate-do, you will see each form and the practice of forms themself morph a thousand times into a thousand different things.

For me, a teacher and student and 1st Degree BB, forms are my focus right now. I am continually learning so much more about what each form can teach me, about why each move is each move, and how my BB forms build off my White Belt forms.

I hope you keep at it. In a time where instant gratification is the norm, Karate-do gives us something we can be assured to never fully understand, and whose lessons are revealed slowly and with purpose.

Thank you. And I will keep training, of course. You always get hurt, but can't stop. (maybe there's something wrong with us... )

[mauger]

Kata is used to build muscle memory. if practiced often enough it allows the karateka to react on instinct. when combined with knowledge of the Bunkai it can be useful for sparing combinations and self defence if necessary.

[bushido_man96]

Kata is used to build muscle memory. if practiced often enough it allows the karateka to react on instinct. when combined with knowledge of the Bunkai it can be useful for sparing combinations and self defence if necessary.

I think the bunkai training allows one to react on instinct. In just kata training, there is no stimuli to react to, so you are just building movement skills.

[deckerdude]

Its K K K all the way for me! Traditional Karate has Kata at its very core.

[todome]

Kata is used to build muscle memory. if practiced often enough it allows the karateka to react on instinct. when combined with knowledge of the Bunkai it can be useful for sparing combinations and self defence if necessary.

With respect, I don't agree with that approach to kata at all. Kata isn't about grinding hundreds of individual movements into our brain stems. It's about discovering the fundamental principles that allow us to properly execute the full range of movements presented to us by the kata and grinding THOSE into our brain stems.

The essence of Karate is elegance, not elaboration.