270 Degree Turn!!

[sensei8]

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone in advance for their input in this discussion. Secondly, I'd like to bow to each and everyone who is now, and who was a beginner in any martial arts because without being a beginner first, you'll have never became an experienced martial artist.

This topic is specifically for any and all Mudansha, ones without dan; the beginners of the martial arts. However, those martial artists that possess a Yudansha, person who holds a dan grade, it’s their experience that will be immeasurable in this topic for any beginner.

Degree turns are measured counter-clockwise, so turning 270 degrees would be the same as turning clockwise 90 degrees. So, then why does the 270 degree turn exist? The answer to this will be almost impossible to imagine due the many methodologies as well as the many ideologies preached by the infinity of different styles of the martial arts.

Within Shindokan, stance attitude affects the quality of any turn, but with the 270 degree turn, it’s vitally important to know a few tips. This big turn, for any beginner is not only difficult for them at first, it also becomes easier with constant practice; and we’re all familiar with an old saying… ”Practice makes perfect!”

1) The deeper the stance, the more difficult it is to turn.

2) Each single movement within the 270 degree turn should follow one another without any stopped-hesitation [head then shoulder then hips then knee then to stop] as one complete movement.

3) Control the excessive sine wave movements at all times.

Having said that…

*Do you find the 270 degree turn easy/difficult for you to learn?

*Do you consider the 270 degree turn an effective/ineffective tool in the martial arts?

*Do you consider the 270 degree turn an effective/ineffective tool only used in Kata?

*Do you think that the only time you’ll ever use the 270 degree turn is in Kata?

Let the discussion begin....

[Dobbersky]

OSU

Excellent topic, and I would love to add, I will wait until we've had a few responses from kyu grades be joining in

Osu

[Wastelander]

*Do you find the 270 degree turn easy/difficult for you to learn?

--It isn't that it is difficult to learn, but it is certainly difficult to get it right. Controlling your body in such a turn can be difficult and changes depending on how you are using the turn.

*Do you consider the 270 degree turn an effective/ineffective tool in the martial arts?

--Depends on how you see it being used. I see it, typically, as a way to throw someone, redirect an attack, control an opponent or evade an attack. In those situations I find it useful.

*Do you consider the 270 degree turn an effective/ineffective tool only used in Kata?

--This question seems to be a combination of the prior question and the following question, so see those answers.

*Do you think that the only time you’ll ever use the 270 degree turn is in Kata?

--I regularly use 270 degree turns in sparring and self defense drills. When I throw someone I have to turn my body as far as possible--yes, the throw initiates at about 180 degrees, but my head keeps turning at least 270, which forces my body to follow. When I apply a joint lock to control an opponent to the ground, I sometimes do not need to turn 270 but sometimes I do, and sometimes even further, but the idea is the same. I also use a 270 degree turn in conjunction with dropping my body, to break free of striking exchanges in sparring. Certainly there are more uses for the turn but at this point in my training, those are my uses for it.

[JusticeZero]

As a practitioner of an art that emphasizes "move" over "strike" or "throw", the question seems really odd to me. It's a bit like saying that there's no need to learn how to throw a hook, since you already know how to throw a straight.

Imagine, you're in front of someone, they throw a right straight. You step in and slip it by moving to their right. Well, now you're bladed to them, and they're on your right side. Well, you can reorient to them now, I guess, and face off again... I suppose you could take advantage with a backfist or something..

Or you can sink, look over your shoulder, and step your left foot past them. Now you have spinning momentum driving your shoulder and elbow into their waist, you've just slipped behind them, and all you have to do is continue the turn to bend them backward over your leg, or pick them up by their groin with your elbow, or come back up into their jaw, or any number of other things. I'll bet the grapplers can come up with more nasty ideas that I haven't covered yet.

[bushido_man96]

*Do you find the 270 degree turn easy/difficult for you to learn?

I did have trouble with it in the beginning. I found that keeping the turning foot closer to the base foot, and not sweeping it out in a large circle, made the turn easier, and my body easier to control.

*Do you consider the 270 degree turn an effective/ineffective tool in the martial arts?

I haven't worked with enough "bunkai" types of applications to know for sure. I do see value in it for takedowns and perhaps releases.

*Do you consider the 270 degree turn an effective/ineffective tool only used in Kata?

Reference answer above.

*Do you think that the only time you’ll ever use the 270 degree turn is in Kata?

I'd say I've used it outside of forms work, but not in the same stance structures, necessarily. Some things in Aikido tend to lend themselves to that kind of motion.