RW Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Allow me to explain my question...I read the lineage topic and it got me thinking.I practiced shotokan for like, 14 years. I can tell karate when I see it. But the more I read about karate, the more I read about other karate styles, the more unclear it is what karate is.So, let's suppose some dude gets a blackbelt from a legit karate school and decides to open his own dojo. Is that karate? He is not endorsed by the JKA or whatever.What if the guy got a blackbelt from a mcdojo? He will teach exactly what he learnt at the mcdojo (but let's suppose the mcdojo belongs to a legit karate organization). Is it karate? See it this way: Once upon a time the definition of karate was so flexible that things that could have been considered spin-offs back then, such as kyokushin, were considered true karate styles, just as we consider them today. What if tomorrow one of the heads of the JKA, who practiced karate with Gichin funakoshi for decades leaves and founds "lolz ryu" (ridiculous name on purpose), and lolz ryu karate is way atypical. Lolz ryu resembles more kung fu than karate. Why would that be or not be karate?I have seen some weird schools that teach "karate". Not shotokan, not goju ryu, not kyokushin, etc. They call their art "karate' or "karate do". They do katas I have never seen before. "Yosno kata 1", "yosno kata 2" and "yosno kata 3", for example. They're all the same (imagine heian nidan using neko ashi dachi stances instead of zenkutsu dachi, and sometimes adding a kick in between in the case of yosno 3). Is this still karate?Some could even argue that ITF TKD is karate...Then, some guys have these karate schools where they get low-level belts to be "instructors" and give them zebra-belts (black & white)... is this karate?The line of what is karate and what is not is too blurry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wastelander Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I honestly think that the question you ask is one that does not have a clear answer. Karate is an empty-handed fighting art of Okinawan origin, but I think that is the closest to a definition that you will find. I think that the name has very little to do with effectiveness, cohesiveness or passed-down curriculum--all of those things are going to be different between different organizations, styles, schools and instructors. Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf KarlssonShorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian RiveraIllinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UselessDave Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Well, you can't just make it up. So practically it has to be coming from karate. As said, it is mostly empty handed. I think it is necessary it to include kihon and kata to be karate.The guy you said would have gotten a black belt from a fine Dojo, and if that wouldn't be shodan and also he'd be teaching the same things, then yes, of course.. If he is so new to it that he yet doesn't know or understand what real karate is (that might be the shodan) then it is not karate. Also if he takes of something very relevant it very well might not be karate anymore.Mcdojo is what it is because they don't even know what karate is all about. So they can't possibly teach karate that any good karateka would consider as karate.We can assume that the JKA guy knows karate. If he teaches something else then how would that be considered karate just because the teacher knows karate? Although I have to doubt his undearstanding of karate, if he does call his style karate. "People study from boredom. They fall in love, get married and reproduce from boredom. And finally die from boredom." -Georg Buchner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensei8 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Karate is a way of life!! Karate expounds the virtues of movements, and in that, movements are the proponent of karate.Strip away all of the intrinsic value labels attached to karate, it's still one thing; raw and basic. All of the decorations that we, man, attaches to 'it' to make it appear more important/effective than the other, or more than it truly is, that destroys the intent of its simplicity.What is Karate to me? It's mine!! **Proof is on the floor!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsd1592 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 hay now you dont need and association for it to be karate. Also karate is a way of life as sensi8 said. also you need to understand karate is just and interpretation that okinawans and Japaneses took on martial arts. Then there is korean karate which all is arguable off shoots of chineses martial arts. worry less about the name and more on the teachings you get bout with the technique and the life style they will teach you.Also i would not consider tkd karate. Its a style of its self. Thats what the Korean government wanted when thay unified Korean martial arts under one name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senseikellam Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Karate is a way of life!! Karate expounds the virtues of movements, and in that, movements are the proponent of karate.Strip away all of the intrinsic value labels attached to karate, it's still one thing; raw and basic. All of the decorations that we, man, attaches to 'it' to make it appear more important/effective than the other, or more than it truly is, that destroys the intent of its simplicity.What is Karate to me? It's mine!!AMEN! LOVE THE WAY YOU SAID THIS! Sensei KellamKarate is a way of life!http://cranemartialarts.ecrater.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnASE Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 To me, "karate" is a Japanese word that should refer to a Japanese art, but it means different things to different people. To the general public, I think it has become a generic word for martial arts, or at least the striking arts. I can't tell you how many schools I've seen with the word "karate" on their signs that were TKD, Tang Soo Do, or even Hapkido.If people who practice similar arts from other countries want to use the word because the public understands it better than the name of their style, I'm okay with that. It's inaccurate, but generic words have to come from somewhere. It's like when people say "Kleenex" for facial tissue or "Band-Aid" for adhesive bandage. You know what they mean. John - ASE Martial Arts Supplyhttps://www.asemartialarts.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UselessDave Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I can't say I'm okay with people using word karate to describe something else just for lack of imagination. It may just be a little part of the reason why people don't know what karate really is. If something gives meaning for everything, it gives meaning for nothing. "People study from boredom. They fall in love, get married and reproduce from boredom. And finally die from boredom." -Georg Buchner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushido_man96 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I honestly think that the question you ask is one that does not have a clear answer. Karate is an empty-handed fighting art of Okinawan origin, but I think that is the closest to a definition that you will find. I think that the name has very little to do with effectiveness, cohesiveness or passed-down curriculum--all of those things are going to be different between different organizations, styles, schools and instructors.This is about as close as I would put a definition on it. I don't worry about whether or not it comes from a recognized association, though. What Itosu taught Funakoshi didn't come from a recognized association that I can remember, so I'd take that portion out of the equation. https://www.haysgym.comhttp://www.sunyis.com/https://www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Thanks for your replies... truly informative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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