Kyokushin round kick and shin block history question

[brickshooter]

I think people often mistakenly look at Karate as a final product. IMO, it's a core style to which people come up with new techniques to fit their needs. Since people's needs continuously change, Karate itself changes.

So the leg kick could be a copy from Thai Boxing. Or it could have been home grown when leg kicking was promoted from within. Let's be frank, we're not talking about rocket-science.

If we take a couple of reasonably intelligent people and we tell them that the rules allow full contact leg kicks, I'm certain that within a month of full contact kicking, they're come to the conclusion of what we see used in modern Kyokushin.

Regarding the Brazilian round house kick. I actually started to use it in the early 80s before ever seeing it elsewhere. The reason was that I was facing a lot of TKD fighters who were very good at blocking my round kicks. So I had to adapt my core kick to get around their guard.

I'm not writing this to pat myself on the back. I'm writing this to demonstrate that novelty techniques are often home grown as needed rather than any system copying from any other system.

[moriniuk]

It just seems coincidental that before 1971 there are no signs of these techniques, in Oyama's books at least.

Then with the advent of Japanese Kickboxing and its Muay Thai influence these techniques appear in Kyokushin Karate.

I don't know when low kicks were allowed in Kyokushin sparring rules, but I wouldn't mind betting that they weren't allowed before 1971.

[UselessDave]

Well does anyone know how was the sparring before year 1971? I mean, wasn't there punches to head and grappling etc.? So if the whole kumite was so different maybe they didn't have as much use for low kicks..

[Dobbersky]

Well does anyone know how was the sparring before year 1971? I mean, wasn't there punches to head and grappling etc.? So if the whole kumite was so different maybe they didn't have as much use for low kicks..

I would replicate this question in the Kyokushin for Life0forum as there are some senior Kyokushin Shihans who will remember what it was like and you can add the response on her

OSU

[yamesu]

Which kata?

Garyu

[Dobbersky]

Which kata?

Garyu

Out of ALL the Kyokushin Kata, Garyu Kata is THE kata I would love to learn the most!

My reason, this was Sosai's Kata and I want to be able to continue his legacy

OSU!!

[moriniuk]

Garyu kata

There's a couple of high level, chambered round kicks and one high level round kick, spinning back kick combination.

Still none of the, now almost representative of the Kyokushin fighting style, straight leg, low round kicks and shin blocks.

I think that it can be concluded that these techniques were not an original part of the Kyokushin style and that they have been borrowed from Muay Thai.

There's nothing wrong with that, karate is always evolving. I'm just interested in the history of these techniques.

[evergrey]

OSU, I don't think I have seen Garyu kata yet...

In our dojo, we still chamber the low mawashi geris, and turn the hip over to drive our weight DOWN into the thigh. Hurts.

OSU

[Kuma]

Garyu was actually created by Sosai Oyama. I don't think in any of the traditional kata was mawashi geri ever there. A lot of people give Gigo Funakoshi props for adding it to the Shotokan repertoire, but it's also present in Okinawan styles where he didn't have anything to do with it.

[moriniuk]

There are a couple of mawashi geris from the ground in Shotokan's Unsu kata.