Kyokushin round kick and shin block history question

[moriniuk]

The round kick is probably one of the most used kicks in Kyokushin sparring and particularly a low kick to the thigh.

It seems to be thrown with a straightish leg and not chambered as in other karate styles.

The shin is used as the striking surface instead of the instep or the ball of the foot.

To block this low and sometimes middle kick the shin is used to block it.

Now then. In Mas Oyama's three great works, What is, This is and Advanced Karate there is no mention of this type of kick. The kick illustrated in all of these books is thrown from the chambered position and nothing is mentioned about the thigh being a target.

The shin block isn't mentioned at all in any of these books which were all published before 1971.

In another book, Essential Karate published in 1978, there is one picture illustrating a shin block, and all the kicks are the same as in the other three older books.

Was this kick, low target area and shin block used in Kyokushin prior to the advent of Japanese kickboxing which was influenced by Muay Thai in the late sixties and early seventies?

[UselessDave]

There has been much changing in Kyokushin kumite since it was made. The head punches is probably just the most noticeable thing.

Hasn't it gotten something from Muay Thai? Surely that kind of blocks haven't been denyed..

[moriniuk]

That Brazilian kick too. I don't know why it's called a Brazilian kick but that's a Muay Thai kick as well.

I suppose that in the early days of Japanese kickboxing matches the Japanese Kyokushin people saw the Thais using these techniques and because they were so effective they've now become part and parcel of the Kyokushin syllabus.

[UselessDave]

That Brazilian kick too. I don't know why it's called a Brazilian kick but that's a Muay Thai kick as well.

It has become well known from some brazilian fighters using it.

[luca61]

If I remember well, in the early 70s there were some fights between kyokushin and muy Thai. Maybe they just adopted some Thai techniques.

[Dobbersky]

What you need to do is look deeper into the core of Kyokushin to see its roots. Oyama Sosai practiced Goju Ryu AND Shotokan before formulating Kyokushin.

If you look at Goju Ryu, a lot of the techniques are found there. I have been sharing techniques with a Goju Ryu Black Belt and its amazing how similar they are. I know I am an Ashihara Karateka but Ashihara came from Kyokushin as Ashihara Kancho was Oyama Sosai's Uchi Deshi and one of Soasai's senior Shihans.

OSU

[UselessDave]

What you need to do is look deeper into the core of Kyokushin to see its roots. Oyama Sosai practiced Goju Ryu AND Shotokan before formulating Kyokushin.

If you look at Goju Ryu, a lot of the techniques are found there. I have been sharing techniques with a Goju Ryu Black Belt and its amazing how similar they are. I know I am an Ashihara Karateka but Ashihara came from Kyokushin as Ashihara Kancho was Oyama Sosai's Uchi Deshi and one of Soasai's senior Shihans.

OSU

But the thing was that the techniques aren't presented anywhere in the previous writings. The techniques would have come from Goju ryu or shotokan long after kuokushin was created?

[Dobbersky]

But they are represented in the Kata, I don't disagree that a lot of influence comes from the interaction with the Thai's but there is also influence from the chinese fighters of SanDa or SanShou (Chinese Kickboxing)

[UselessDave]

Which kata?

[moriniuk]

However much you analyse the Kyokushin katas and the other Shotokan and Goju katas, I think you'd struggle to say that this, that or the other movement was actually a shin block or a straight leg round kick using the shin to the thigh.

Chinese kickboxing that we see today is a relatively new concept that bears little resemblance to any form of 'traditional' gung fu style.